Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 20

Seth Paxton · 06-12-2003, 01:30 PM

The Decalogue used to sound intimidatingly arty to me before, not knowing what the work was like, when it was from, etc, simply knowing that it was hours of film on a Criterion set. Having seen Three Colors I now realize that I should expect really entertaining narrative done in an artful manner rather than dry art that must be appreciated rather than enjoyed (for hours on end).

That is still a barrier for me which certainly undermines any elitist attitude I could be accused of. I'm more like to wade into a 90 minute film that got blasted by critics (Old School) than pop in a potentially demanding film like Fast Runner or Decalogue.

However, the AFI thing, several of my film classes, and the arthouse/S&S threads have time and again proven that many of the classics I haven't seen are actually just enjoyable as hell on the surface. It's a lesson I know well enough to preach but still only practice half the time.

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Holadem · 06-12-2003, 02:39 PM

I don't think anyone in their right minds would accuse you of elitism. I like your appraoch to movies, as you seem to enjoy both the contemplative and the visceral stuff and you don't seem to subscribe to the decline of hollywood or the selling out of the academy rethorics. All stances which I happen to agree with

I personally can't stand elitism. But then again, it's somewhat relative - for some, even I might be, simply because I participate in this thread...

--
Holadem

Brook K · 06-12-2003, 03:01 PM

I generally equate "artiness" (and again, I really hate that the use of that word in a derogatory manner), with stylization and going beyond or underneath conventional storytelling rather than simply the expression of complex ideas, philosophies, explorations of human nature, etc.

Simply being in a foreign language does not make something an "art" film. To me, Ikiru, Bob Le Flambeur, and all of Eric Rohmer's work except maybe Percival are not art films except in the sense that, to me, every film is art. Something like Zelig, Carrie, The Shining, or All That Heaven Allows are much more artistically stylized than The Decalog, Humanite, or Fassbinder's The Merchant Of Four Seasons, and yet none of the American films I mentioned are ghettoized as "art films".

Seth, The Decalog is much more an expression of complex ideas and dramatic storytelling than the kind of structural differences or stylization I think of as an "art film". Blue is much more stylized than any of The Decalog episodes.

Tim Raffey · 06-12-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

i didn't quite get this part of the film. i didn't know if she was doing this because she liked the name (whatever she used, i forget, but i know it was the same one every time) or if she really did forget what his name was.

I believe the real (or, at least, narrative) reason Marianne keeps calling Ferdinand 'Pierrot' is explained in the film--there was a French sorta childrens' song in which the main lyric was 'My friend Pierrot'. When he asks her "why do you keep calling me Pierrot?", she replies: "You can't say 'My friend Ferdinand'."

Quote:

Simply being in a foreign language does not make something an "art" film...and yet none of the American films I mentioned are ghettoized as "art films".

Very well put, Brook. I think more people would be artistically offended by the end of John Sayles' Limbo than any of Kieslowski's films. But Limbo has David Strathairn in it, so it must be an adventure/thriller. I can see where it comes from (Hollywood traditionally finds a formula that works, and milks it for all it's worth; those foreign pictures which are released in North America are less likely to follow that), but I think everyone can find a movie to change their life that wasn't made in their country.

And no one should be afraid of Kieslowski. His (and Piesiewicz's) stories are perhaps the most universally human of all my favourite movies.

Holadem · 06-13-2003, 08:41 PM

Sunset Boulevard

out of 4.

"I am big. It's the pictures that got small".

I had never read or heard of this line until today. Yet, the moment she uttered it I knew to an absolute certainty it had made history.

I am speechless. This is an absolutely brilliant film. This is why we watch classics.

--
Holadem

OcieB · 06-14-2003, 05:59 PM

Just watched Psycho(A+). Brilliant. Such a powerful film... i dont know what to say. 57 viewed

Adam_S · 06-15-2003, 02:48 AM

Seth that's almost exactly how I feel much of the time. I wade into these sorts of films (S&S 'art' films) with trepidation most of the time, only to be proven wrong again and again. but I'm also just as likely to see the merits in something like Anger Management or Sweet Home Alabama rather than tearing them down like most people do. I think there's nothing wrong with an unpretentious movie that only wants to entertain you (which the above movies did). Heck I even enjoy a good beat-em-up even if it is NOT made in Hong Kong, and explosions, pseudo science, and guys with guns are great fun as well (like Armageddon, Die Hard, and The Rock three guilty pleasures of mine). In fact if it's a populist bit of entertainment like the above, I generally consider a slam by the average critic to be a good recommendation.

Matt, glad you liked Jaws, it's definitely one of the most accessible films on the list. On the surface and first viewing it seems to be all about the adventure, but there are a marvelous amount of little touches that just make the film better each time I watch it, a brilliantly put together movie in my opinion. However, I can understand your attitude to 2001 it almost mirrors my exact attitude towards the film - Technical = A and content = F--unfortunate the rest of the film is not as interesting as the dawn of Man sequence. However this film got better when I saw it for a second time on a personal projector, so I have some hope that the film will improve if I ever get the chance of seeing it in 70mm.

I bring that up because I felt somewhat as you did towards Lawrence of Arabia (although I'd have given Content a B+) initially, but when I saw a 70mm print of the film last fall, this film went from being my least loved Lean to the most. It truly is a completely different film on the BIG screen.

One of the most valuable lessons I"ve learned is that while dvd will do, as many films as possible should be seen in film, there's nothing quite like it. I hope you get a chance to see a 35mm print of black and white academy ratio film projected some day, that first experience is always wonderful. mine was Treasure of the Sierra Madre (first time I saw that as well), when suddenly a whole cadre of films that had always been small became big, it's a magical moment.

Adam

Arman · 06-15-2003, 12:14 PM

Updated my list in page 5 with my #s 160 thru #163, Kurosawa's Throne of Blood (A-), Bunuel's Los Olvidados (A-), De Sica's Miracle in Milan (A-) and Powell & Pressburger's The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (A-) and upgraded (repeat viewing) Kaige's Farewell My Concubine (A-).

Coming up next - Tati's Playtime

Adam_S · 06-15-2003, 01:43 PM

Finally saw Lean's Brief Encounter -

Simply exquisite. flawless, and probably the best female melodrama I've seen other than All about Eve (

) which I saw last night.

OcieB · 06-15-2003, 01:51 PM

OK i might be a little late with this, but heres my list of films seen; some with re-thought grades.

61 viewed

1. Citizen Kane (A+)
2. Vertigo (A+)
4. 8 1/2 Fellini (A+)
5. 2001: A Space Odyssey (A+)
7. The Godfather Part II (A+)
8. Seven Samurai (A+)
9. Rashomon (A)
10. Singin' in the Rain (A+)
15. The Godfather (A+)
16. The Passion of Joan of Arc (B)
19. À bout de souffle (A++ not a typo)
19. Touch of Evil (A)
20. L'Avventura (B+)
22. Dr. Strangelove (A+)
22. Jules and Jim (A+)
25. Psycho (A)
25. Sunset Blvd. (A+)
28. The General (A+)
28. The Godfather and The Godfather Part II (A+)
28. Some Like It Hot (A)
33. Les Enfants du paradis (A+)
37. The Apartment (B)
37. Apocalypse Now (A)
37. The Seventh Seal (B+)
37. Taxi Driver (A)
43. Chinatown (A+)
43. Le Mépris (A)
43. The Third Man (A-)
50. The 400 Blows (A+)
55. Barry Lyndon (A-)
55. North by Northwest (A+)
64. Blade Runner (A)
64. Pulp Fiction (A+)
64. The Wild Bunch (B)
82. A Clockwork Orange (A+)
82. GoodFellas (B)
82. Ran (A)
95. Blue Velvet Lynch (A)
95. Double Indemnity (B-)
95. His Girl Friday (C)
95. The Lady Eve (C)
95. My Darling Clementine (A+)
95. Notorious (A-)
95. Pierrot le fou (A+)
95. Stagecoach (B+)
124. Red River Hawks (C)
157. Bonnie and Clyde Penn (A)
157. E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial (B)
157. Jaws (A)
157. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest (A-)
157. Out of the Past (C)
157. Paths of Glory (A)
157. Spartacus (B)
157. Spirited Away (B+)
157. Star Wars (B)
157. That Obscure Object of Desire (A+)
226. Fargo (A)
226. Nanook of the North (C)
226. Schindler's List (A+)
226. The Shining (A-)
226. Steamboat Bill, Jr. (A)

Thi Them · 06-15-2003, 03:55 PM

Updated

~T