Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 18

Doug D · 06-06-2003, 01:50 AM

Three more for the list (which puts me at 179):

I wasn't looking forward to it, but STAGECOACH was a great experience. A little too much comic relief for my tastes, perhaps, and

Spoiler:

but these are minor quibbles - I liked how the myriad characters developed as things progressed, and I was genuinely wrapped up with everything by the end. And having only seen the later John Wayne, the young John Wayne was a total revelation.

THE LADY EVE was my second screwball comedy in three days (the first was MY MAN GODFREY) and I continue to have reservations about the genre, most notably in the utter arbitrariness of the character developments. For me, the end didn't ring true at all. I don't want to be too negative, to be fair, as there's a LOT to recommend here, and I was definitely entertained.

L'AVVENTURA ... boy. I feel like I need to watch this with the commentary, and watch it again. Just listening to a couple minutes of the commentary made it clear I was missing tons of things that Antonioni was doing. A very striking film, and it's not one that I can say I loved off the boat, but it's one I'll definitely return to again.

*EDIT* - Just noticed that I had forgotten to count TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE, which puts me squarely at 180. And one more discovery - A DAY AT THE COUNTRY is originally titled PARTIE DE CAMPAGNE, which I've seen as well, so 181.

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Lew Crippen · 06-06-2003, 09:25 AM

Pierrot le fou While I personally think that this film is too uneven to be a masterpiece, it is full of fun.

Pierrot

How many times do I have to tell you my name is Ferdinand?

Here is a romance where the girl never (not once) gets the guys name right. A romance where no thought is given to the consequences of any action, even murder. A film of lovers on the run. And the pace of the film matches their exploits very well, including shifts in style and time for no apparent reason.

I just love the casual way cars and money are acquired and dispensed with without any thought as to what comes next.

Tremendous fun and as always with Godard the film has so many references to other films (and filmmakers) you know none of this is real.

Lew Crippen · 06-06-2003, 10:01 AM

Doug, not an attempt to change your views on screwballs, but I’ll make a couple of observations—which may well be incorrect, as it is just some of my unformulated thoughts:

Characters in Screwball Comedies don’t really ever develop—they are types and stay true to the types throughout. The guy remains who he is at the beginning—his main change is coming to the realization that he loves the girl (something we all knew from the first reel) and, at the end accepting that he loves the (inappropriate) girl. So he does not really change.

The girl only really changes at the beginning when she meets the guy. And (of course) falls instantly in love. Unlike the guy, she knows this immediately and is determined to force a conclusion.

Now in The Lady Eve it may well seem that Eve’s character changes a lot, but I would contend that she remains constant after falling for Hopsie. Although she seems to revert back to her hard-hearted self after being treated badly, in fact she has never changed at all, as evidenced in the easy reconciliation we see at the end.

And the remainder of the cast, stereotypes all, have no need for any character development (and there is none).

This lack of character development is not unique to Screwballs—I would submit that the characters remain constant in ‘film noir’ as well. We know at the beginning who all of the characters are and expect them to not change during the course of the film. A weak one will fold, the femme fatale will betray the protagonist, he will remain constant despite being betrayed, and so on.

Now this may not help you like the films any more than you do already, but as we know how the film is going to end, there is not a lot of point in worrying about the mechanics of the conclusion—the whole point is to enjoy the ride along the way.

As to L’Avventura, I agree that it is a difficult film. It is one that I deeply love and come back to again and again. I don’t pretend that I know everything that Antoonioni is trying to say or do, but it is a film that I understand a bit more every time I see it.

Doug D · 06-06-2003, 02:47 PM

Lew, I think the sour taste that both MY MAN GODFREY and THE LADY EVE left in my mouth is

Spoiler:

Is that usual for screwball comedy?

OcieB · 06-06-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Here is a romance where the girl never (not once) gets the guys name right. A romance where no thought is given to the consequences of any action, even murder.

Yeah, i think that Pierrot was awesome, i loved the recklessness of the characters. Perfect anylization Lew.

Lew Crippen · 06-06-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Is that usual for screwball comedy?

Very interesting view in your spoiler, Doug. There is one school of thought that says that Screwballs and film noir are opposite sides of the same coin (which is one reason that I used both in my character development example). Put succinctly, a screwball is a noir played for laughs.

So, if you think about the character of (for example) Swede in The Killers (1946 version, of course), he is not only trapped by the femme fatale, she is the cause of his death. Of course, he wants the woman (as do Hopsie and Godfery), but this does not mean that she is right for him. In The Maltese Falcon, Sam Spade does not die, but consider this famous line delivered to Brigid, the femme fatale of this film: “I hope they don’t hang you precious, by that sweet neck. Chances are good that you’ll get off with life, so if you’re a good girl, you’ll get out in 20. I’ll be waiting for you. And if they hang you, I’ll always remember you” And we know at that moment that he will never get a girl who is right for him—the best he can hope for is her or another like her.

The supposed ‘happy endings’ of the screwballs are not necessarily that happy (as you suggest) and in fact are analogous to the pathetic endings of film noir

In short (as Mr. Micawber would say), this is the way screwball’s end. But, viewed properly (at least, in my opinion) it is the right and proper ending, which the whole film has built towards.

Interesting that this topic should come up as I’ve just re-watched and made brief comments on a couple of Jean-Luc Godard films. Look at the skillful way he uses stock characters from American gangster and film noir movies to populate Pierrot le fou and Breathless. And how he makes these truly funny, using (among other things) some elements of the screwballs.

Not for nothing does he focus on a poster of Bogart in the latter and not for nothing does Sam Fuller discourse on film in the former. As you likely know, Godard was one of those French critics who helped popularize the term film noir and applied it to those American films.

Adam_S · 06-07-2003, 01:12 AM

HAN: (sounding official) Everything is under control. Situation
normal.

INTERCOM VOICE: What happened?

HAN: (getting nervous) Uh...had a slight weapons malfunction. But, uh,
everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here,
now, thank you. How are you?

INTERCOM VOICE: We're sending a squad up.

HAN: Uh, uh, negative. We had a reactor leak here now. Give us a few
minutes to lock it down. Large leak...very dangerous.

INTERCOM VOICE: Who is this? What's your operating number?

Han blasts the comlink and it explodes.

HAN: Boring conversation anyway. (yelling down the hall) Luke! We're
going to have company!

The Conversation -

You know, the photography was quite nice it really was, not great, pretty good, interesting. Very French New Wave.
The performances were pretty good too, Hackman was better than average, not great, but kept the film from completely disintegrating into neverending ennui.

I won't embarass the film by listing everything unappealing, annoying, dilatory, and damned frustrating with it. In that sense this film is the 'perfect' art film, in that it is so pretentious and full of itself that it honestly seems to believe its lie that there is some sort of meaning wrapped up in this unengaging bit of non-storytelling. Without merit and a waste of time. I didn't care about any of the characters, I was playing a game with myself by the film's middle: "ohh I wonder if this guy will die, no maybe that guy will, die, I wonder if Gene Hackman will die, it'd be nice if that guy died. Hey maybe the woman will die... YAY BOOBIES! finally something interesting... awww she didn't kill him, she only stole the tapes, ohh is this drama will he have to track them down? nope, the 'prostitute' working as a booth girl for the rival audio guy from the east coast was also working for THE DIRECTOR somehow or another and the tapes are safely in his hands, no need to worry, there's only going to be teasing of something interesting happening. Art film right down to the boob shot inserted to give the film some sort of commercial appeal. OH wait, I nearly forgot the pretentious, cliche dream sequence somehow supposed to add meaning, only to show how completely false and empty of meaning this exercise of artistic masturbation truly is.

I'm considering ranking this down, but the pictures were pretty, the acting above par, and there were the obligatory boobies so the night wasn't a total waste of time...

Then again, maybe it was, I could have been watching something else worthwhile.

Adam

george kaplan · 06-07-2003, 07:11 AM

Lew,

Very nice insights on screwball comedies.

streeter · 06-07-2003, 10:18 AM

Saw a few recently, and I recounted my total:

Singin' in the Rain
Sunrise
Bicycle Thieves
The Apartment
Last Year at Marienbad
The Wild Bunch
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence
McCabe & Mrs. Miller
The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
All About Eve
Bringing Up Baby
Strangers on a Train

My total is 116

OcieB · 06-07-2003, 06:39 PM

I have Ivan the Terrible pt 1 and 2 here and i was wondering if 1 or 2 is on the list; or if its pt 1 and 2 that are #48?

Thi Them · 06-07-2003, 07:49 PM

Ocie, part I is on the list at #48. Part II only had one vote, which was from Paul Verhoeven. Anyway, you should watch both.

~T