Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 112

Michael Elliott · 03-19-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Teller

EDIT: you know what, never mind. I've seen the kind of endless, long-winded, quote-each-other-back-and-forth arguments you get into, and I'm not interested. I don't even want to get in some kind of parting shot. Let's just agree to not care about it.

edit: oh, why bother. Have it your way, george. Enjoy what you like.

Do you have something against discussions?

True, no one ever changes their own minds on these debates but aren't we here to hear what other film buffs think and why they like/dislike something? You seem to think these discussions are some sort of bad thing but quite often they can get people to check out certain films. Not to mention that it's fun to talk, agree and disagree with other film buffs.

I think every single person has argued with every other person who takes part in these threads yet everyone still comes back to have fun. Arguments are going to happen when passionate people discuss passionate topics but rarely does it ever get mean spirited.

Thomas J. · 03-19-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Elliott

Fine. I just wanted to clear up your error before more people started to believe them, which is a problem these days. People quote some dipshit from IMBD without doing any of their own homework.

However, if you are interested then send me your address via PM. I've got three extra books I could send you as well as hundreds of pages from LOC and NFR. Not to mention around 80 films. All free of course.

Wait a minute. You're giving out 80 films for free? Or was this a joke (sorry, I'm slow).

Anyway, I don't remember if it was Michael or Martin who said Intolerance is clearly the better movie, but funnily enough, I think BIRTH is clearly the better movie. INTOLERANCE is an interesting experiment in juxtaposing four narratives against each other, no doubt about it, but BIRTH is more organic and fluid and energizing and a better instigator for having conversations about real life -- including the actual Civil War battles depicted in the film, the war's effect on its participants, and on racist portrayals in cinema. I think it's altogether more ICONIC, but no, I can't measure iconography with a mathematical formula. By the way, Triumph of the Will is just as damning a film, but that doesn't limit its greatness. On the Waterfront is a shameful film in relation to how Kazan intended it as an alibi for his ostensible ratting, but it's still a great film.

Thomas J. · 03-19-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by george kaplan

Obviously genres are a tricky thing to define. I certainly don't think of Rebecca as a melodrama (which I would consider a movie primarily concerned with soap opera type story and characters). Is there some of that in Rebecca? I guess, but it's primarily a dramatic mystery to my way of thinking. I do like a number of dramatic romance films, which is the closest I would get to melodrama, but there is, IMO, a huge difference between films like The Ghost & Mrs. Muir or Casablanca (which do have some of those elements) and true soap opera melodramas like All About Eve or The English Patient or Magnificent Obsession or Written on the Wind.

You don't like All About Eve either? I mean, you're allowed not to like it, but do you think it's flat out BAD no matter how you look at it?

Martin Teller · 03-19-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Elliott

Do you have something against discussions?

No, I just know from experience that certain discussions (especially with certain people) will only consist of stubborn refusal to budge on a viewpoint and gradually deteriorate into endless nitpicking of each other's posts line-by-line.

I believe it came up earlier in this thread that trying to argue with gk is like beating your head against a wall. So I try to avoid it, even though I think half the stuff he says is just plain wrong.

And really, any discussion that starts with accusations of who "gets it" or doesn't "get it" is going to end badly.

Michael Elliott · 03-20-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Wait a minute. You're giving out 80 films for free? Or was this a joke (sorry, I'm slow).

If you want about 80 Griffith shorts then send me your address via PM. It might be this weekend before I can get them out to you but I'm more than happy to pass them if you're interested in watching them (or just certain ones).

Quote:

No, I just know from experience that certain discussions (especially with certain people) will only consist of stubborn refusal to budge on a viewpoint and gradually deteriorate into endless nitpicking of each other's posts line-by-line.

I'm certainly one of those certain people.

Stubborn might be one way to look at it but in the end, I think after the debates we all still come back to hear/learn about film. I'd replace the word "stubborn" with "passion.

Hey, I know how the majority of people feel about Griffith but I have a passion for his films so that's why I try to defend him at any chance I get. This might make me look bad and I'm sure I've pissed some people off with my comments but it's due to my passion of his films and not something against the person I'm debating with. I've got countless books, court documents, notes from LOC and so on so I think I know a few things that your average fan wouldn't know. When I throw these things out there, several times I come off as a prick but in all reality, I'm just trying to share what I've read or learned. I do have an ego but I honestly come to this thread and the "Track" thread to learn from other buffs.

Dome Vongvises · 03-20-2007, 12:13 AM

What the hell have I missed?

I think I'll restart this thread once I start school again.

george kaplan · 03-20-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

You don't like All About Eve either? I mean, you're allowed not to like it, but do you think it's flat out BAD no matter how you look at it?

Martin Teller · 03-20-2007, 12:42 AM

Well I said earlier, there's no shame in not getting it:

#249 - The Puppetmaster

I don't get it. I just don't get why this guy has been put on a pedestal (or Edward Yang for that matter, but that's another topic). Sometimes I think if you're Asian and you make slow, simple movies about everyday domestic life, you have a guaranteed fanbase in the critical community. So here's another okay-but-why-all-the-fuss movie from Hou. Ponderously slow at times, and the narration that forms the heart of the film is too long-winded (though one can understand why Hou would want to be respectful to his subject). There are some insightful moments, and the more political angles were pretty interesting. Yeah, it's a fairly good movie if you can withstand the tedious parts, but I fail to see any greatness. Rating: 7

Brook K · 03-20-2007, 01:30 AM

Well, I was going to type SOMEBODY GETS IT! (and cares), since I'm sure George knows the arguments for the greatness of ATHA. I'm not sure that he buys that this is what it is about and it doesn't matter because he doesn't like soap operas or whether he thinks a ton of people are wrong about the themes and the films are just plain bad. In the end it doesn't really matter. I was just funnin' anyway.

You are cruising through these films Martin. I don't pretend to fully understand Hou either. I have some more to say on the subject, but it's 1;30 AM and my brain is fried.

Adam_S · 03-20-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Sometimes I think if you're Asian and you make slow, simple movies about everyday domestic life, you have a guaranteed fanbase in the critical community.

Oooh orientalism! surely we can rustle up some grand debate on that topic in this thread of all places. Maybe we can use antonioni as a counterexample and somehow drag Griffith, Spike Lee, silica packets and melodrama in to make it a meta-debate--but something that tremendous might cause the board to implode, so maybe we shouldn't...

I don't get Hou and I took a class where we studied his work (and other recent films from asia). I don't think you're supposed to get Hou.

I think I even wrote a paper on one of his films, where not getting it was possibly the thesis, but I'm not sure.