Sight and Sound (2002) Greatest Films Club - Page 103

Holadem · 12-06-2006, 08:03 AM

Been meaning to watch Veronique forever. Kieslovsky is a fav just based on his major work. His themes (connections, second chances, fate) just click with me. Red was one of the first art films I saw, perhaps the first, and it was a defining point in my film experience.

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H

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Haggai · 12-06-2006, 07:32 PM

I saw Veronique a few days ago, and I was really disappointed. I just couldn't get into it at all, though Irene Jacob is of course totally stunning and very sympathetic, but I didn't care about anything that was happening. I do remember liking Red when I saw it, although it was far too long ago for me to remember much about it.

I guess Kieslowski is one of those film-makers where you either "get it," and his stuff really speaks to you, or it just leaves you cold. Wong Kar-Wai is one of my favorite directors around today, though I can't really blame people who don't find much to enjoy in most of his movies. His favorite themes are similar to what H talks about with regards to Kieslowski, and though their styles are probably somewhat different, their general approach of almost always going for "mood" over plot is obviously similar. Yet Veronique was a big dud for me.

Bob Turnbull · 12-06-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Wong Kar-Wai is one of my favorite directors around today

That's interesting Haggai, because I haven't really "connected" with Kar-Wai. That's not to say that I don't recognize the beauty in his work (particularly In The Mood For Love), but my favourite of his films so far has been Fallen Angels which I think was also the most straightforward and was your least favourite.

I just got caught up in the visuals with Veronique (no, not just Irene...

). Have you seen all of his Three Colours trilogy? I thought both Blue and Red were stunning both visually and story wise. As well, his use of music has been extremely key in my enjoyment of his films so far. Zbigniew Preisner's scores are really moving for me and mix so perfectly to what he brings to the screen.

Haggai · 12-06-2006, 10:48 PM

Yeah, my point is that these two particular directors have an idiosyncratic sort of appeal that doesn't really work for everyone. The fact that one can be a fan of one and not the other, as our reverse preferences seem to indicate, just illustrates that for me.

I saw Red a really long time ago, and Blue in the only slightly less distant past; never seen White. I'll have to re-visit those at some point. Wong Kar-Wai actually used a piece by Preisner in 2046, from the Decalogue. WKW is undoubtedly a Kieslowski fan.

My least favorite WKW is actually As Tears Go By; it seems like he just had to get a genre movie made (Triad/gangsters, in this case) before he could get into the sort of thing he really wanted to do. Though I do love the "Take My Breath Away" sequence in ATGB, a favorite among WKW fans. The way I look at it, what he really wanted to do was to make an entire movie like that one scene, and he managed to do it the next time out, with Days of Being Wild. I like Fallen Angels OK, but I don't think it's on the level of Chungking Express, which it was spun-off from.

Bob Turnbull · 12-06-2006, 11:47 PM

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Yeah, my point is that these two particular directors have an idiosyncratic sort of appeal that doesn't really work for everyone.

Yep, full agreement here...Just curious about your impressions of other Kieslowski. I also fully see why someone might not like DLoV or be moved by the trilogy.

Irene Jacob being hot is indisputable however...

Haggai · 12-07-2006, 12:00 AM

No doubt about that! Also, Bob, since we're talking about her and since you also posted about The Conformist, I just thought to point out that the star of that movie (among many other famous roles in his career) was also Jacob's co-star in Red, Jean-Louis Trintignant.

Actually, Holadem, have you seen what was one of Trintignant's other best-known roles: Z? Since you were so keen on Battle of Algiers, you should also check out Z, if you haven't seen it.

Holadem · 12-07-2006, 08:42 AM

Nope. I just check imdb, it seems right up my alley. The premise and Yves Montant made me think at first of I comme Icare (I for Icarus?) which I only saw once long ago but remember as an excellent thriller as well (you should check it out if you haven't). I'll add Z to the queue if it's available.

Speaking of WKW, it seems you reacted to Veronique the same way I did to Chungking Express: pretty dissapointed following the hypnotic In the Mood for Love. It happens. Of course you also have to be in the right mood and viewing conditions for this sort of stuff since they are not exactly plot driven. I doubt anything could make me enjoy Chungking Express though, I can't get past irritating leads.

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H

Bob Turnbull · 12-07-2006, 09:24 AM

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about The Conformist, I just thought to point out that the star of that movie (among many other famous roles in his career) was also Jacob's co-star in Red, Jean-Louis Trintignant.

I knew his name sounded familiar! Didn't recognize him though and I just didn't follow up on IMDB. Damn, I may really have to rewatch the trilogy again soon...

I really gave The Conformist short shrift in my comments. There's a lot more to it than just the cinematography and I found all of it enjoyable. The weak-willed Clerici's need to conform to fascism as well as societal expectations (marriage) sets him up for his eventual downfall.

As well, I'll echo that Z is terrific.

Martin Teller · 12-07-2006, 12:06 PM

WKW and KK are similar in mood, but WKW tends to go more for emotional themes while KK is more on the conceptual side. I like both, but I definitely prefer Kieslowski, precisely because I enjoy that kind of conceptual stuff. I can see how some people might find it too gimmicky or over-reaching, though.

Haggai · 12-07-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holadem

Speaking of WKW, it seems you reacted to Veronique the same way I did to Chungking Express: pretty dissapointed following the hypnotic In the Mood for Love. It happens. Of course you also have to be in the right mood and viewing conditions for this sort of stuff since they are not exactly plot driven. I doubt anything could make me enjoy Chungking Express though, I can't get past irritating leads.

I love Chungking Express, though I can see how that point would have made it a tough slog for you. I've probably mentioned this to you before, but since ITMFL really worked for you, definitely check out Days of Being Wild, which is where WKW really got started with that particular style (DOBW is from '91, ITMFL from 2000). And then check out 2046, which heavily references both of those earlier movies. Those three are all very similar to each other; Chungking Express is kind of different.

I comme Icare sounds interesting, I hadn't heard of it. Looks like it's not on DVD, though. I'll check it out if it becomes available.

Martin, interesting comment on the differences between Kieslowski and WKW. That sounds like an accurately succinct way of putting it.

Bob Turnbull · 12-12-2006, 11:40 AM

#155 - Marnie - Fine Hitchcock effort. Though I was worried about the over 2 hour running length, the story never really flagged at all and kept me interested and (if not on the edge of my seat) certainly not relaxed. I love the reds jumping out throughout the film, though the resolution of that particular thread wasn't quite up to what I had hoped. I expect when this film was released, there must've been some controversy or commentary on some of the subject matter. Having said all that, I'm not sure the story really warranted the length and I don't quite see this as a top tier Hitchcock (though still quite entertaining).

#156 - Children Of Paradise - I've had this in my hands a number of times at the rental store, but until Holadem turned into a blithering fool trying to describe it (

), I had not actually brought it home. It's a wonderful film with outstanding characters that are complex, interesting and rise and fall in your estimation as the story unfolds. I expected something different when I was thinking about "poetic realism" - visuals along the lines of Beauty And The Beast, etc. - but somewhere within the first half hour you start to see the poetry through the characters' words and actions. The film really grabbed me when Baptiste came to Garance's rescue to be a witness (via his pantomime description of the events). If that didn't do it, than Garance's come hither look to Baptiste later on (when she sits on the bed, taps it lightly and states "I'm not very sleepy") put me over the edge. Her look, movements and the way she said the words were simply one of the most sensual and feminine moments I've seen on screen. I will certainly need to see it again to pick up on more of the plays within plays facet of the story, but the simpler moments of the stories are what really caught me the first time around.

#157 - Cries And Whispers - I'm not quite sure what to say about this..."Bergman does horror", "Red Room" or "WTF?" don't quite cover it. Technically, it's beautiful. The visuals (the red, oh my the red!) and Bergman's framing of just about every single moment in the film are truly exceptional. I love the dream like feel of the flashbacks, the turn at times towards horror and even what I thought was an uplifting ending (after a great deal of depressing elements)...But I really didn't care for the characters and that didn't help me negotiate the depressing waters or the earlier dream like moments, so I didn't truly gather up exactly where things were going at times. It's a work of art rich in symbolism, so I don't have a problem seeing it on the S&S list as a representation of how film can be used to capture feelings, thoughts and relationships. I don't think it'll ever make a personal favourites list though nor would it be something I would revisit for entertainment.