New Member/New Theater

Hawaii Todd · 08-02-2008, 11:33 AM

Aloha from the islands! I am looking forward to learn more about HT and get involved with folks here who have much more experience than myself. My name is todd and I am located on the island of Oahu in the Hawaiian Islands.

I have recently assembled a very basic HT system. I spent what I thought to be a fairly decent amount of research into the typical LCD/PLASMA/DLP/ETC/ETC, 720P/1080P, 5.1/7.1 sound and other typical HT options. Early on I decided to spend more $ initially on the visual end rather than sound quality/quantity. Like most things in life you can research HT all you want, but until you buy and use a system for a while - dont know what you really want/prefer. So was this first time around for me. Thankfully I havent had to return anything..

So here are the goods:

- Samsung 1080P 50" Plasma Model # PN50A550S1F

- Onkyo 7.1 Sound System Model # HT-S5100S 1200W

- Monster Flatscreen Coaxial Video Cable (wall outlet to CSTB)

- Philips HDMI X 3 (CSTB HDMI output to Onkyo Receiver Passthrough input, Onkyo Receiver passthrough output to Samsung Input, Samsung DVD out to Onkyo Receiver DVD Input)

- Philips Subwoofer Cable

- Philips Fiber Optic Cable PTX1000 X 2 (CSTB to Onkyo Receiver, & Samsung DVD to Onkyo HT-R560 Receiver)

First impressions:

I am very happy with the Samsung 1080P Series 5 Plasma display. Remote functions are intuitive, picture quality very good, and value for cost decent value. The HTIAB (home theater in a box) is a mixed bag. The front, center, and subwoofer seem decent quality, but all the surround (4 of them) are 100% disposable quality. They are better than nothing, but I wouldnt pay a dollar each for them new (Im serious).

Major flaws:

I learned that the Onkyo HT-S5100 system that seems FULLY HDMI ready is not all I had hoped. It supports 1080P HDMI -IN VIDEO FORMAT ONLY. I had no sound until I added the fiber optic cables to my CSTB & DVD due to this. I think the industry has done the consumers a dis-service with what I call "HDMI CONFUSSION 2.0" Equiptment is labeled as HDMI compliant but thats only half the truth in this case. I know to those 'in the know' this is obvious, basic knowledge. But to me it wasnt, and nobody took the time to explain it. The first time I hooked it all up and put in a DVD, I found out by the dreaded "Does not support HDMI audio" message, along with no sound. Neither the HTIB or Plasma saleperson made this crystal clear. Although they were very good at telling me HDMI supports BOTH audio AND video so I ONLY need ONE cable per device...... And then it all comes clear, that the whole HDMI issue is very confusing, and costly to the consumer. They tell you all the good about HDMI and selectively leave out all the important details that make the ultimate hook up a farce.

Conclusion:

Audio -If I had the ability to buy all new equiptment I likely wouldnt change much (hdmi issue and all!). To build a 7.1 audio system that is HDMI compliant in both audio AND video is very expensive - so the Onkyo HT-S5100 was likely the cheapest, best 7.1 HTIB available (even though 7.1 is rare even on current Blue Ray DVDs). Final cost on the Onkyo was about $450.00 out the door.

Video - I absolutely Love the Series 5, 50" Samsung 1080P plasma. The 60hz "frame rate" (basically what it is right?), is a bit slow compared to the new 100hz and 120hz LCDs - but I purchased this unit mainly for DVD/movie watching, and general TV couch potato activities. The outer polished black laquer case is dead sexy and super tech looking. I paid a good price for it ($2,000.00) and circuit city had a sale so I got a extra 200.00 off. Final cost was about $1,800.00 for 1080P 50" plasma out the door.

Total cost OTD was about $2250.00 for 50" display and 7.1HTIB minus interconnects and DVD player. I have some great high quality pictures of my set up. Once I figure out how to upload photos and create a gallery I will share them with everyone..

Ronald Epstein · 08-02-2008, 04:45 PM

Todd,

Welcome to HTF! I hope you find a new home here among
fellow enthusiasts.

You really can't go wrong with a Samsung display. We have found
them to be a very reliable brand.

I am a bit surprised and confused by the whole HDMI issue with your
Onkyo unit. I have never personally heard of a receiver claiming to
be HDMI compatible but only supportive of video. I am hoping that there
is some sort of playback issue that can be corrected on your end.
Perhaps our membership can assist.

Once again, welcome aboard!

Hawaii Todd · 08-03-2008, 03:35 AM

Thank you for the welcome Ronald.

It would be great if another member perhaps with a similar set-up could in fact clear up the HDMI audio issue I seem to be having.

Perhaps this bit of info might help clairify the issue. The Onkyo unit has 3 assignable HDMI inputs, & 1 output. However, they are what is called a 'passthrough'. It seems this passthrough design only supports video format - to get audio you must connect audio by way of coaxial/fiber optic/RCA in addition to hdmi on each device.

I had done a brief internet search on the Onkyo HT-S5100 once I had noticed this issue and saw reviews apparently with the same issue. Some reviews by consumers, but also at least one independent review was by a magazine or could have been consumer reports. It seems there are a few Sony units that offer passthrough design too. Seems to be quite a few unhappy customers feeling cheated by the whole 50% hdmi thing going on with alot of entry and mid priced AV units.

Ronald Epstein · 08-03-2008, 05:19 AM

Todd,

I was just doing some Internet reading on this subject and
it appears that you actually do have to use an optical cable
for sound with passive HDMI.

Any opportunity to return this receiver, pay slightly more, and
get a fully functional HDMI receiver?

IdontHaveAgoodUserName · 08-03-2008, 07:34 PM

ok the exact issue is your reciever says it's an hdmi passthrough. for all onkyo recievers hdmi passthrough is only a video passthrough. For those of you looking for reciever/systems and want video and audio through the hdmi you need to look for up-conversion, i know upconversion maintains to the video but i believe all of the models that atleast have this do both formats throught the hdmi.

**HTF Ads**

Hawaii Todd · 08-04-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

Todd,

I was just doing some Internet reading on this subject and
it appears that you actually do have to use an optical cable
for sound with passive HDMI.

Any opportunity to return this receiver, pay slightly more, and
get a fully functional HDMI receiver?

If I am able to return/exchange this unit is there a sound system you might suggest? I had originally decided to purchase a high end Bose system but when I found out even thier 'lifestyle' high end units are still doing only 480P for $3,800.00 I moved along. I decided to forgo any DVD player and just purchase a decent 5.1/7.1 system and add blue ray later, thus the Onkyo purchase.

So to get a fully 1080P HDMI compliant HTIB system or a separate reciever/speaker package in either 5.1/7.1 what might you recommend? Prefer to stay under $1k for simple but decent quality system if possible.

chuckg · 08-04-2008, 12:27 PM

Sounds like you are well down the road to madness - oh, uh, I mean nirvana!

Congrats on the great joy of HT!!!

On the HDMI issue- I'm rapidly starting to despise HDMI. Just one little techno-thrill, and I have to toss out half my stuff and buy new stuff. Why didn't they put two HDMI outs on each source, so you can connect audio to audio devices, and video to video devices? Why didn't they just use the tried-and-perfected Ethernet? Heck, if I can stream video at gigabit speeds, then why have another freakin' standard?

gah.

I suppose I'll eventually get a processor that takes care of all the audio and video needs, and then I'll be happy again!

IdontHaveAgoodUserName · 08-04-2008, 05:40 PM

I dont know where you bought your current system and there may be better deals out there but look into the polk rm6880 speaker set(5.1) or the boston acoutics mcs130mdnt....both clearenced down at circuit city to about $250-380 so yours might or might not still have it but both pretty good set of speakers and something like the onkyo 606 for $499 or den avr988 is around 600 now if you can still find one.....these are just some ideas you may find something better online or at another store.

Hawaii Todd · 08-04-2008, 07:06 PM

Thanks for the recommendations. Going to check the purchase date on the Onkyo unit and if under the 30 days still maybe see about exchange. I am more concerned at this point with getting what I want/need rather than final costs, after being dis-satisfied with 'value'.

Just cant justify buying whole new set-up if past 30 days.. As much as I want to believe it is a acceptable substitute for what I want/need, it isnt. Liveable, yes. Acceptable, no. In the beggining your just happy to have sound from speakers other than the TV, and then, well... It all gets really expensive quick.

Hawaii Todd · 08-04-2008, 07:39 PM

Good news! I have 4 days to reurn/exchange. I am going to pack it up and get a full refund. I dont want to be rushed to make purchase, or forced to buy only what Circuit City has, so just going to get my cash back and take my time finding a new audio system.

Hawaii Todd · 08-05-2008, 07:55 PM

I have finally totalled what a realistic, entry level, full hdmi system is going to cost, and its about $1,500.00.

I guess all these audio manufactures figure folks are dropping $2K-$5K on Visuals - so they have placed full HDMI audio systems right on these same price lines also.

Lets do the math:

HDMI receiver (audio AND video) $500.00
5.1/7.1 speaker system $1,000.00

What appears to have happened in reality is folks do in fact drop $2k on visuals- BUT those same folks DO NOT drop 2K on audio. They might spend 1/4 of that on sound system, only after being disappointed with LCD sound.

So these audio manufacturers built a bunch of "half assed hdmi equiptment" to the market at a price point folks are willing to spend on audio system. But rather than be up front about their 50% hdmi system, they slap HUGE HDMI labels on the equiptment and box and in effect deceive/LIE to the consumers.

Then a consumer like me spends what seems needed to get 'HDMI equiptment' only to find out I was flat out lied to by the store who carries, and the company who manufactures this half ass attempt to steal my money.

The alternative would be to not make 50% hdmi equiptment and label it as apparently 100% HDMI. But then they wouldnt sell as many hdmi units. So lying is better for business in this case.

I am one of those guys who puts together a 50 inch plasma and a home theater sound system in a box and calls it a home theater so apparently the fact I feel Onkyo and Cicuit City essentially reached into my pocket and stole my $500.00 doesnt much matter to them. If it did - there would be some semblance of truth in advertising.

You should see the box this thing came in. HDMI is about 6 inches tall and it says "passthrough" in writting so small you need reading glasses to see i