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Home Theater forum blazes ahead with reviews that are designed to help you make the right viewing choice! This week Ken McAlinden reviews Albert Lewin's MGM adaptation of Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray, a highly awaited release that gets notable recommendation. Todd Erwin gives us two reviews of the recent "Indie" releases, Harold, starring Spencer Breslin -and- Dororo, a live-action comic book adaptation directed by Akihko Shiota. TVShowsOnDVD this week include 30 Rock: Season 2, The Sarah Silverman Program Season Two Volume One, Lil' Bush: resident of the United States Season Two, and Mission Impossible: The Fifth Season. Finally, new Blu-ray reviews include Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, The 40-Year-Old Virgin and Poltergeist.
 
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:33 PM   #1 of 7
GeorgeH
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Brownouts dangerous?


I've done some searching on this and didn't find an answer - apologies if this is a repeat (and a redirect is welcome).

The other day, we had a double brown-out. Which is to say, according to my wife, the lights dimmed for 10 seconds or so, the power went out, then it came back on, and did it again, resulting in a 20 minute blackout. I'm not 100% certian but I do believe the cause was a downed branch, as it happened during a winddstorm.

My desktop PC was a casulty of this - it's dead, and it appears to be a motherboard issue as the power supply checks out OK. My new plasma & receiver were off at the time so thankfully no problems there. But still it made me think.

I currently have cheap surge protectors/power strips for both the HT and PC. Clearly the one on the PC wasn't good enough, so I did some research on this board (thanks to Chu & others who have made excellent posts on this topic!) and I'm on my way to installing a full-home surge protector. So far so good.

But I got to wondering. The PC surge protector is fine, and didn't pop it's fuse. My wife said that after the power came back on, she just switched on the monitor (which is connected to the same surge protector) and it came on fine, but the PC didn't. All the LEDs on the protector read fine. So, whatever killed the PC didn't trip the surge protector.

So, the question is, can brownouts damage electronics? Is it possible that the voltage drop did the damage, as opposed to a potential spike?

And, if so, is there effective protection against this? Panamax has some units that protect against low voltage, but I wonder about their effectiveness. What do they do when line voltage drops? So they just shut down, killing all power to the connected components?

Thanks for any comments on this.

George
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:20 PM   #2 of 7
David_Rivshin
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


Quote:
So, the question is, can brownouts damage electronics? Is it possible that the voltage drop did the damage, as opposed to a potential spike?
Yes, and yes.
Brownouts are very dangerous, and most electronics deal with severe undervoltage poorly.
Of course, it's also quite possible that there was a quick spike that went right through the cheap surge protector; they're not always very fast about blowing, or it could have just failed silently long ago and provided no protection.

As far as your computer is concerned, the brownout probably caused the power supply to under-volt it's outputs, and you might have killed any or all of the other components as a result. Only way to really tell is by process of elimination. I'd suggest swapping the power supply for a known-good one just to be certain the MB is actually dead. The MB uses some lines from the PS that are dedicated to it, and if one of those could be fried.
In any event, just cross your fingers and hope the harddrives survived, as that can cost more than just money if you don't have recent backups. I had a drive that erased it's firmware and refused to spin up in a similar incident, but luckily I was able to recover it.

There are basically 2 ways to try and deal with a brownout situation:
1) shut off power as quickly as possible
2) boost the voltage back into normal range

Since the Panamax devices are passive, the only thing they can do is shut off power when they detect a below normal voltage. For things like TV's and receivers this should be just fine.
In order to boost voltage, though, you need some source of extra power, which basically means you need a UPS. Of course most low-end UPSs do not do anything for undervoltage situations (power is normally passed straight through, unless a complete power loss is detected), so that's no good either. Midrange UPSs (such as the APC SmartUPS line) detect undervoltage conditions and boost the voltage, or just plain switch over to battery power. I would tend to recommend that choice for computers, as it has other benefits (like software support for automatically shutting down the computer nicely).

For my computers I have a Triplite ISOBAR6DBS surge suppressor that I retired from my the home theater when I got a Panamax unit. Plugged into that is an APC SmartUPS 1400 that's served me well for many years (and through many blackouts). The ISOBAR provides strong surge suppression, as well as protection for the cable-modem line coming in, and some EMI/RF filtering. The SmartUPS provides under- and over-voltage protection, as well as the obvious battery backup. Together I think they provide a pretty good level of protection from power related problems. Of course I'm sure I just jinxed myself by saying that...

Good luck!
-- Dave

PS: Never plug a surge suppressor/protector into a UPS, as it will cause the battery to drain very quickly, as well as probably killing the protector due to the interaction of the UPSs output characteristics and the MOV device. Unfortunately it's hard to find a cheap power strip that doesn't have a surge protector in it as well.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:32 PM   #3 of 7
GeorgeH
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


Thanks Dave, very helpful. Time for a Panamax, I guess. Or perhaps two.

George
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Old 11-29-2006, 12:23 AM   #4 of 7
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


Brown outs (aka power sags) are dangerous in that they can damage certain electronic components as you found out.

Your only way to protect against this is thru a battery back up unit (colloquially known as a UPS box [uninterrupted power system])

Like many things in home theater, try not to let power conditioning and the paranoia of power problems become an obsession!!

APC, powerware and tonnes of other companies make em. I use a double conversion model myself which means my power that supplies the home theater gear is completely sequestered from the mains supply and comes from the battery which is contnuously charged. That way brown outs are not a problem

http://www.powerware.com/UPS/9120_info.asp

The APC site has a lot of info too

By the way George It might be wise to stick with companies that invest lots of R&D into products for the PC industry.

Last edited by willyTass : 11-29-2006 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:11 AM   #5 of 7
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


Well George the upside of the mobo frying is you get a chance to get a new one. Just in time for Vista, right? You sure it's dead though? Did you plug in the PC directly into the wall, bypassing the surge strip?

UPS's like others point out should be able to deal with brownouts or no power easily and if you hunt around somebody's always got them on sale.
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:56 AM   #6 of 7
GeorgeH
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


Yeah, a UPS would be better for the PC, but the HT is actually worth more so that's my top priotity. Probably go with a Panamax M8C-Pro for the HT, and a M8-EX for the PC, since it doesn't have network or coax lines connected (wireless). These appear to give brownout protection, and I'll look into a UPS for the PC at a later date.

Not sure about what's toasted in the PC (and yes, I tried several outlets, with and without the powerstrip), but according to the diagnostics the PS is fine. It's only when I connect the MB power connector that the little LED on the PS starts to blink, which, accordning to HP's diagnostics, means that some component connected to the MB is toast. Could be the memory, could be the CPU, could be the MB itself. Best to replace all three - that's what I'm telling my wife.

Last edited by GeorgeH : 11-29-2006 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 11-29-2006, 11:07 AM   #7 of 7
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Re: Brownouts dangerous?


An excellent diagnosis and considering you'll 'need' a beefier system with a new operating system on the horizon, I'd say you've got ample justification.
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