Buying a house w/o 3 prong grounded recepticles. HELP!

Adam_R · 05-17-2006, 09:01 AM

I am buying a home that was built in 1960 and has only 2 prong outlets. I have a Monster Line conditioner for my HT stuff.

Can I get a 2 to 3 prong convertor?

How is this going to affect me?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks!

Don.l · 05-17-2006, 10:54 AM

I've always heard that you shouldn't do the converter thing, and you should get the outlets switched over for the ground. I don't think it's difficult or to expensive to have done, but you should do it and not do the converter thing.

Don

I've always heard that you shouldn't do the converter thing, and you should get the outlets switched over for the ground. I don't think it's difficult or to expensive to have done, but you should do it and not do the converter thing.

Don

chris_everett · 05-17-2006, 05:04 PM

First, you need to find out if your wire has three conductors (hot/neutral/ground) or not. If so, it's trivial to change out outlets to newer 3-pin types. If not, your wiring may be grounded through conduit. Although not as good as a conductor in the wire, you can still use standard 3 pin outlets. (look closely and you will see that the ground wire connects to the bracket which will connect to the box) WARNING: if you have a "conduit ground" system, don't use isolated ground (orange) outlets.

If you don't have three wires _or_ conduit, I would be worried. I would consider figuring in the cost of re-wiring the house into the purchase price.

Whatever you do, DON'T bypass the safety ground. It's there to save your life.

BruceSpielbauer · 05-17-2006, 10:16 PM

Chris Everett is 100% correct. You MASY find that there is no major issue at all, IF the house actually has the third (ground) wire run throughout the system. Surprisingly, it was common for quite awhile to wire new homes with a ground (third wire), and then only install a two prong receptacle. I bought a home back in 1989 that was built in 1960 (coincidentally), and it had this arrangement, exactly. Every outlet was two prong. But, behind every outlet were three wires. I spent one day switching off breakers, and changing them out, at a total cost of less than $50.00.

It is also possible that your house has the conduit as the ground. If so, that is not as nice, but still will not mean any major expense, in order to swap them out. It is just a bigger pain to actually attach that connection properly, to ensure each new 3-pring outlet is properly grounded (this is NECESSARY, and must be done!) A bit more time-consuming, but no more epensive, really.

The third possibility, as he suggests, is the only one which can cost you "big bucks" later on. That is the case where there are only two wires, and no conduit, or perhaps there are two wires with conduit, but no true conduit ground to be found.

To check, you can start by cutting one circuit at the breakers, and then unscrewing a single outlet, and look for yourself. Check a couple, perhaps three, and note what you see. Hopefully, you will see three distinct (different colored) wires in each, and a pattern will begin to form, and you can relax.

-Bruce

Leo Kerr · 05-18-2006, 07:52 AM

Please note, I haven't done this sort of renovation, and I really dislike working with Romex-type materials. That said,

If Adam has no conduit ground and only two wires in his feed wiring, how hard would it be to pull new 3-wire Romex in - by way of tying it to the two wire and pulling it through? Even if - here an unfinished basement is a good thing - it's just the last 18" up through the floor/wall from the basement?

Secondarily, how hard would it be to just fish in a seperate copper wire to add grounding?

Tertialy, in either case, this would be a chance for Adam to find out if the house was wired with copper or aluminium...

Leo

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Adam_R · 05-18-2006, 08:56 AM

The basement is finished, so it would be very difficult and expensive to update the electrical system now.

If it turns out that it's really just 2 wire with no ground, what does that mean to my HT?

Can I not use it at all? Will my equipment not operate? The ONLY thing in my whole HT setup that requires 3 prong is the Line Conditioner. If there is no ground, it will just light up the "no ground" light, correct?

Thoughts?

Thanks again!

chris_everett · 05-18-2006, 11:25 AM

Leo: He might be able to use existing wire as a pull string, but if that wire was stapled to studs (as it should be) that won't work.

Adam: I would not buy a house without an electrical grounding system. It's not just the light coming on. If you have a ground fault in a piece of gear, it will find ground through other means. Possibly you or your family, electrocuting you, or through a less conductive material, causing a fire. Even if you only have one pice of HT gear with a ground pin, you probably have lots of other electical "stuff" in your house with a ground pin. If it does not have a ground system, I would call an electrician and have them give you an estimate on the cost of re-wiring, and deduct that from any offer on the house, and explain why.

Adam_R · 05-18-2006, 01:45 PM

I appreciate the input guys.

I spoke with an electrician and he told me that I could put GFCI outlets on a 2 wire groundless system and use surge protectors and I'd be just fine. I already have surge protectors and line conditioners for all my gear anyway.

He also to ld me that I could just run a ground off the neutral wire, which goes to the same place a ground wire would anyway. He can't do it becasue it's against code, but he said that's what he would do in his house.

Is he nuts?

The house and town is so awesome, the 2 wire thing is extremely minor in the scope of things.

chris_everett · 05-18-2006, 05:44 PM

Yes, you can use GFCI's, and that will offer _some_ protection. However, GFCI's aren't appropriate everywhere (they have false trips to often) And they won't protect against everything. Surge protectors and line conditioners are not really relevent.

You can connect your ground to neutral, and yes, it goes to the same place....But be _very_ careful doing this. You have to make __SURE__ that your outlets are wired correctly. If you get an outlet wrong, bad, bad things could happen.

In a house this old, I'd just be worried about the electrical infrastructure in general. You may have a fuse box rather than breakers, aluminum wire rather than copper, not enough circuits in some places like the kitchen, etc.,etc... All in addition to potentially no ground wire...

This is probably worry for nothing. Most probably, there is a ground wire.

Adam_R · 05-18-2006, 09:46 PM

thanks for all the input chris

the house has been updated to 200 amps and has a breaker box, not fuses.

i do understand that using the neutral can be bad, so i may just pay to have the house re wired, as painful as that may be, who knows

i spoke to the electrician who inspected the place and he can run ground wires to some easy to reach places for not much money

who knows

thanks again!

Wayne A. Pflughaupt · 05-18-2006, 09:54 PM

Adam,

Maybe someone with more experience can comment, but I believe surge protectors will not work without a ground. The same might also be true of line conditioners, but I’m not sure.

Nevertheless, a simple solution is to just not use equipment with grounded plugs.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt