Dave Milne

Ideas for DIY slim tower speakers

I've been away from the boards for a while - enjoying my theater rather than tinkering with it (blasphemy!)

My latest project is a pair of speakers for my dad. His is a two-channel only system and he'd prefer not to have a subwoofer. So I'm looking for some slim floorstanders with decent bass. WayneJ's Eros II was one of my original choices. However, the new Exodus Kit 261 appears to be capable of impressive low end. It is pushing the envelope price-wise (about $700) but probably do-able.

Anyone have experience with these? Or are there some other candidates? The Dayton 8's are nice and cheap but unacceptably large.

Stuart.C

You may want to consider Cyburgs Needle (google search). A tall thin design that uses a full range TB driver. I have not heard them myself yet, but I am building a HT set for a friend for Christmas.

Dave Milne

Thanks Stuart. I also forgot to mention that in my search I (re)discovered the A/V-3. It looks like these are a solid design with a strong following. I was also intrigued by the M8n variants that ThomasW has discussed here and on other boards - I've just never seen a two way crossover with that many parts!

I'd love to engineer my own from scratch, but I've done enough speaker design over the years to know that I don't have the proper equipment or anywhere near enough time to do it right.

Stuart.C

Hi Dave,

I've decided to do "full range" for my first project. Very simple, no crossover, just a driver (CSS FR125S) in a sealed box. I figure that I have a sub to fill in the botton end. Also, if I'm not happy with the results, I can add tweeters to the design, to add to the top end, similar to a Kit41. I became interested reading the full range forum over on diyAudio.
Now I just have to stop buying tools and start making sawdust...

ThomasW

Dave,

If you're talking about the MTM using the HiVi M8 drivers that speaker will stomp any of the other designs you've mentioned.

The reason for the complicated crossover is that this is a VERY spohisticated state-of-the-art (no compromises) design using a Cauer-Elliptical filter. The massive caps in the XO are a function of large value caps being made from multiple smaller caps, that saves money.

If you use big value caps the XO looks much simpler, and is significantly smaller, but more $$$.

Now I'm sure someone's going to jump in here to say fewer XO parts = better sound. Well like the saying small woofer = fast bass, it's bunk.

theAudioWorx Klone-Audio
Cult of the Infinitely Baffled (Resource for IB sub builders)

Al Garay

Thomas,

Have you had a chance to listen to the newer Adire kits... LCR, Kit61, Kit261 or Kevin's Kit2641? You should. You cannot judge it based on what you know of the Extremis 6.8 and Mark's measurements.

I have listened to Jon's M8a IIIs, MT with M8a and Vifa XT25 design. And it does not stomp the Kit61 MT. And the 3-way LCR is far more balanced, better up and down than the M8a 2-way for about the same amount of money when you factor in the cost of the crossover parts.

ThomasW

We were involved in the preproduction purchase of the Extremis, and certainly aware of it's strengths and weaknesses. Putting them in a system isn't going to solve the inherent issues with the design. After making our own measurements and doing listening tests, the 8 units purchased were sold at a 50% loss simply to dispose of them.

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion. There are others that would offer an opposing view. Jon's designs are known to be quite revealing of the quality of the source electronics.

YMMV.........:wink:

theAudioWorx Klone-Audio
Cult of the Infinitely Baffled (Resource for IB sub builders)

Al Garay

No question that John Hancock (JonMarsh) is well respected designer and a super nice guy. I know that since he has been extremely generous to me. And I will not judge his work based on the one set of speakers that I heard.

The Extremis are very good as a woofer. In the LCR, Kit2641 and APEX designs, they cover the frequencies below 700Hz. Crossing over to the WR125 midrange which does a surprisingly SEAS Excel like job for mids. The Usher tweeter is very much like the PE Reference tweeter with a soft dome. As a system, they have very good balance, high output and transperancy. I give credit to Dan Wiggins being a very good crossover designer who deserves more kudos for his engineering skills.

Here is a picture of the APEX kit (48"H x 10"W x 16"D):

Dave Milne

Wow. Thanks Al and Thomas for your useful, contrasting, inputs. I am reminded why I was attracted to this forum several years ago.

Yes, Thomas, I was thinking about the MTM design with the M8. And yes, I realize that the size and parts count of the crossover is driven by "massively parallel" GE caps for cost reduction.

Al, thanks for introducing me to the Apex. Somehow I missed that when I was surfing the Adire site. It is clearly out of budget range for my dad's project, but looks very interesting for MY next speaker. My theater doubles as a listening room and, although it is not huge, it is acoustically very dead --too dead for good two-channel listening, but I make do. The ambience driver might be useful in this regard. Also I occasionally listen loud... loud enough to clip a 400wpc (@4ohms) Bryston 4BST into 90dB efficient Dynaudio towers. I've been thinking about upgrading to a pair of 7BSTs or a 14BST. It looks like the Apex might be up to that kind of challenge.