Am I over cabled?

Maurice Shapiro · 08-09-2005, 03:58 PM

Hello to all.

I subscribe to the Dish Network and receive satellite programming through a single DVR 510 receiver. My main viewing in on a Pioneer Elite 510HD television located in my entertainment room. I also have non-HDTV television sets in three other rooms.

The installer who cabled my two Dish Network 500 satellite dishes and receiver connected them and a Terk roof terrestrial antenna in a way that allows me to view satellite and local stations in four separate rooms.

TI do not believe the image quality displayed on all four of my television sets is as good as it should be. I think that the reason for this less than optimum quality might be signal degrading bcause of too many connection devices.

My first question is, do I have too much cabling? Secondly, if not too much cabling, are my devices correctly cabled?

These are the connections the installer made:

Two dish 500’s are cabled to a SW21 3-sat switch. A cable from the switch along with a Terk terrestrial antenna cable connects to diplexer #1 in my garage attic.

A cable connects from the diplexer to a TSDA2150 signal combiner.

One cable from the TSDM2150 connects to a Monster brand splitter. A second cable connects to the DVR 510 satellite receiver.

One cable from the DVR 510 satellite receiver connects to the Pioneer 510 HDTV.

The DVR 510 satellite receiver connects one audio cable and one video cable to a USM-8 modulator. The modulator connects one cable to the Monster splitter.

The Monster splitter has one cable connecting to a DSU-2 splitter.

The DSU-2 splitter has one cable connecting to two different TA15 amplifiers.

A cable from amplifier #1 connects to a VC R. A cable from amplifier #2 connects to diplexer #2 in the garage attic.

Diplexer #2 in the garage attic connects to non-HDTV television sets in three rooms.

In addition to the setup that the installed made, I ran a cable from a second Terk terrestrial antenna that I put on the roof directly to a Pioneer HDTV tuner SH-D09 integrated in my Pioneer 510HDTV. This caabling allows me to receive over-the-air high definition programming directly from local TV stations. It does not pass through any other devices. The image from this setup is superb!

As an added note, I have a Denon AVR-4800 controlling digital and analog feeds relating to the satellite receiver, Pioneer HDTV, DVD, VCR and other devices. No audio problems are discernible from the way I have made connections to and from the AVR-4800.

I appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you.

Maurice

Grant B · 08-09-2005, 05:14 PM

At least you got an installer that knew his stuff since it's more complicated than most.
The easiest option is to get another Dish box and leave one on the HDTV ands the other for the 3.
Before that you might check the coaxes for loose or bad connection which could degrade the picture.
I installed for a while (little $ for a lot of work)an learned not to break the cable more than 3 times on long runs (~100ft or more)
I have my DVR (Directv) going to 4 TVs without a problem using a Channel plus ditribution system.

Quote:

my two Dish Network 500 satellite dishes

Is the 2nd one pointed for local channels?
I always hated the way Dish did that.....looks bad and adds a wire nest but you can't get around it.
Hope that helped some
Grant

Wayne A. Pflughaupt · 08-09-2005, 05:29 PM

Wow, that does seem like a convoluted mess, Maruice.

It’s hard to help since you don’t give any indication of signal direction. Therefore it’s impossible to figure this out from what you’ve given us.

For instance:

Quote:

A cable connects from the diplexer to a TSDA2150 signal combiner. One cable from the TSDM2150 connects to a Monster brand splitter. A second cable connects to the DVR 510 satellite receiver.

Combiners and splitters have three connections: A splitter has one input, two out; a combiner has two inputs and one output. In both cases you don’t tell us what is attached to which. Therefore it’s impossible to follow the signal path.

It would also help to know things like that purpose the VCR serves you, if the three TVs served by the second duplexer have their own sat receivers, and in general what you are expecting to get out the system (i.e., what you need it to accomplish).

RF connections are generally trickier than others. I’ve heard that with all the service calls a cable company does, it ends up being a problem with the cabling 90% of the time. Many times the F connectors are not terminated correctly, or are not tight enough. So basically it makes sense that the fewer connections the better. Also, all satellite cabling should be RG-6, from the dish all the way to the TV.

A few things do jump out as questionable.

Quote:

Two dish 500’s are cabled to a SW21 3-sat switch.

I can’t find anything on a “3-satellite switch” at Parts Express, but I’m guessing it allows the two sat signals to be combined. OK there, although I can’t see the point. Typically the reason to have two identical dishes is to supply multiple TV’s. If that’s your situation it would have made more sense to just run feeds directly to the TVs.

Quote:

The DSU-2 splitter has one cable connecting to two different TA15 amplifiers.

Unless you get a weaker than average signal from your dishes, the amplifiers shouldn’t be necessary.

Quote:

A cable from amplifier #1 connects to a VC R. A cable from amplifier #2 connects to diplexer #2 in the garage attic.

Diplexer #2 in the garage attic connects to non-HDTV television sets in three rooms.

A VCR connected to a diplexer?? For what, so someone can watch a tape on all three of the TV’s? That’s nuts. As cheap as VCRs are it would be better to just get one for each TV.

What should have been done is spilt the signal from each dish and send an independent run to each TV. Assuming you have good service from the Terk, I would have split it 4 ways and combined the signal with each sat feed with the diplexers, to the three extra TVs. For the main system, I would have sent separate direct feeds from the dish and Terk and used a VCR as a tuner for the local stations (I really don’t like the idea of diplexing the two signals for my main system). If the local stations ended up weak I would have added a second Terk and done a two-way split from both. Or a 3-way split with one and the other direct to the main system.

By the way, no reason to pay a premium for a Monster splitter. Any splitter rated for satellite bandwidth will do.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Maurice Shapiro · 08-09-2005, 05:36 PM

Thank you Grant for your input. I appreciate your comments

I have checked all cables to insure they are hand-tight fitted.

The distance from my dish and terrestrial antennas to the combiner, splitters, amplifiers and finally to the satellite receiver is just at 100ft. This impedes your warning about “not to break the cable more than 3 times on long runs”

The first Dish 500 gives me satellites 110 and 119. These are my local and majority of Dish programming. The second Dish 500 is satellite 148. This is for additional programming.

My DVR 510 is not a HD receiver. This is of no consequence to me because, as previously mentioned, I do get HD directly from a second Terk antenna to my Pioneer 510 HDTV.

Regards, Maurice

Maurice Shapiro · 08-10-2005, 08:05 AM

Hello Wayne. I am sorry that my post was unclear. I am a home consumer and not well-versed in electronics.

Regarding signal direction, I was told that there are two diplexers in my garage attic. I have not seen them and have GUESSED the paths to and from them. My guess might be in complete error. What I though the installer said that one signal goes from diplexer #1 through other devices to the satellite receiver. Then a signal go back after being converted by the receiver through devices to diplexer #2 and then distributed to TV sets in three other rooms.

I have seen all of the other cables and devices. Based upon what I see connected, this is the path I believe the signal travels:

From two dish 500’s a single cable from each to the SW21 3-Sat switch.
From the SW21 3-sat switch a single cable to garage attic diplexer #1

From the Terk terrestrial antenna #1 a cable to garage attic diplexer #1
From diplexer #1 a cable to TSDM2150 signal combiner.

From TSDM2150 two cables. One cable to a Monster splitter and the other cable to the DVR510 satellite receiver.

From TSDM2150 one cable to the Pioneer 510HD television.

From the DVR510 receiver one RCA audio coaxial cable and one RCA video coaxial cable to a USM-8 Modulator.

From the USM-8 one cable to the same Monster splitter that also received a cable from the previously indicated TSDM2150 signal combiner.

From the Monster cable to a DSU-2 splitter.
From the dSU-2, two cables. One cable to TA-15 amplifier #1 and one cable to TA-15 amplifier #2.

From TA-15 #1 a cable to a VCR.

From TA-15 #2 a cable to garage attic diplexer #2
Diplexer #2 sends the signal down cables to three different TV sets.

The one VCR is used to record off of the one satellite receiver.

Except for the RCA audio and video cables, all other cables are RG-6’s.

The reason for two amplifiers, I was told by the installer, was because of the 100ft distance between the dishes and the receiver. The signal had to be enhanced going to the VCR from amplifier #1. Amplifier #2 sends the signal back to diplexer #2/.

The VCR does not connect to a diplexer. Cables from the VCR connect to the Denon AVR-4800 receiver and the Pioneer Elite TV.

Wayne, I do thank you for your comments. If I were more knowledgeable, I might be able to convey a more intelligent response.

Regards, Maurice

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Wayne A. Pflughaupt · 08-10-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

If I were more knowledgeable, I might be able to convey a more intelligent response.

Don’t worry about it, Maurice – it’s extremely difficult to adequately describe this kind of stuff. That’s why they invented flow charts.

That aside, I was following along okay until here (emphasis added):

Quote:

From TSDM2150 two cables. One cable to a Monster splitter and the other cable to the DVR510 satellite receiver.

From TSDM2150 one cable to the Pioneer 510HD television.

I did poorly in math, but I’m counting three cables from the combiner, not two.

And here:

Quote:

From TA-15 #2 a cable to garage attic diplexer #2
Diplexer #2 sends the signal down cables to three different TV sets.

One cable going into the second diplexer, and one cable going out? Note that Diplexer #1 combined the feeds from the Terk and dish antennas. If Diplexer #2 has only one cable in and out, it’s not “diplexing” anything and doesn’t need to be there.

Quote:

Diplexer #2 sends the signal down cables to three different TV sets.

How is ”down cables to three different TV’s” accomplished? You can’t connect all those cables to a single diplexer. There must be additional splits somewhere.

As I noted, Maurice, all these splitters combiners, etc. have their connections labeled. It will be impossible to sort this out unless you can tell us what those labels are for each and every item. E.g., “One of the Monster splitter outputs goes to the ‘antenna in’ connection on the DVR510 satellite receiver. RCA cables from the DVR510’s video and audio output go to an input of a USM-8 Modulator.” And so forth. Or maybe you could post a flow chart.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Maurice Shapiro · 08-11-2005, 12:18 PM

Hello Wayne

I am learning as I read your post and recognize just how little I know. Once it cools down here (today the temperature will be about 105F, I will go into the attic and actually look at the diplexers and whatever splitters are there.

I will also check the ID ports on each of the connectors near the receiver.

Once this is done, I will TRY to do a flow chart.

Don't hold your breath because our temperatures here are going to stay quite high until October.

Nevertheless, I appreciate your comments and will try to digest and learn from them.

Regards, Maurice

Grant B · 08-12-2005, 05:08 PM

The more I read your post, the more I am amazed everything works!

When you say 'image quality' is not as good as it could be...what exactly is the problem as you see it?
Quality differnces between the Dish & Ant?
Can you bring up the meter on the menu and find the singnal strength on all 3 sats? HD is Sat B and most others are on A