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[ Are large underhung designs superior ro xbl^2? ]

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Old 12-30-2004, 03:56 PM   #1 of 39
Aaron Howell
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First off let me say I did NOT create this post in the hopes of creating a conflict, but more so for a good debate. I made this a separate thread than Chad's so as to not junk up the thread I think Ascendant Audio deserves.

On another forum I frequent there was a statement made. There was a thread started about Chad's drivers, and this was one of the posts in that thread. This other forum does have many knowledgeable members, but the level of detail I have found on home audio forums is usually much more in depth.


This was the statement:

CBeltran
HOLD ON A MINUTE HERE BOYS!
Do not put our subs into the same category as XBL^2 subs. Our subs use a massive 6" V.C. TRUE underhung design, and leave XBL^2 drivers in the dust. They exhibit NO audible power compression for audio applications, and can handle 4kW "peak RMS" power. NO other driver in the workd can make that claim. We do not, however, have a 4 ohm version of the driver- only 8 ohms. These drivers were never indended to be put into a car, and we do NOT recommend that they be place in a car, as they would literally tear a car apart.

Visit http://www.acoupower.com for more information.

BTW, the t-s parameters are here:

15"
Sd = 0.068 m^2
Cms = 159 um/N
Vas = 103 liters
Re = 6.2 Ohms
Mms = 267.0 g
Fo = 24.4 Hz
BL = 23.3 t*m See Below
Qe = 0.469
Qm = 6.05
Qt = 0.44

18"
Sd = 108 m^2
Cms = 106.6 um/N
Vas = 174 liters
Re = 6.2 ohms
Mms = 305 g
Fo = 28.2 Hz
BL = 23.3 t*m See Below
Qe = 0.62
Qm = 8.90
Qt = 0.58

The numbers above were calculated by analysis of the impedance curve (as anyone else would do it). The actual BL is 25.0. Very large drivers do not follow the assumptions for accurate t-s data through electrical measurements.


What would make this underhung design "leave xbl^2 drivers in the dust"? Doesn't it still suffer from the same disadvantages that all underhung designs do? Does a large underhung design make the disadvantages of typical underhung motors less previlant?
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Old 12-30-2004, 04:51 PM   #2 of 39
Brian-K-Owens
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This one has been fun on more than one forum!!!!

Who is to say it is not a great driver, but the claims they make as the best in the world and the $1000+ price tag just make it unreasonable to most people. . .



Brian Owens
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:00 PM   #3 of 39
ThomasW
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For what they're charging for those drivers; I'll just take a 'few' Avalanche 18"s, and not be concerned about the XBL^2 vs underhung debate ....

It would be interesting to see distortion plots on the acoupower drivers .... :wink:


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Old 12-30-2004, 05:12 PM   #4 of 39
Aaron Howell
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This one has been fun on more than one forum!!!!


Really? Gotta link?

I'm glued to my seat on this one.
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:16 PM   #5 of 39
GrahamT
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Quote:
For what they're charging for those drivers; I'll just take a 'few' Avalanche 18"s, and not be concerned about the XBL^2 vs underhung debate ....


Good point Thomas.

They come across as bombastic and I dont like the cut of their jib, but maybe that's just me. With statements like "they would literally tear a car apart." that is obviously not true for one, and they obviously meant that figuratively, not literally. I have read other statements by the company and they read the same, very rhetorical.
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:17 PM   #6 of 39
Allen Ross
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if they can handle 4kw, i wonder what horrible SLP those things have.

also why is the Fs higher in the 18 then the 15?



Member and Founder of the \"Its Never to Big or too Loud to have in a Dorm Club\"
Everyone in college should have a 9 cuft Tempest in their closest!
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:30 PM   #7 of 39
David_P
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Quote:
also why is the Fs higher in the 18 then the 15?


stiffer, less compliant suspension, with stiffness increasing proportionally more than the moving mass, making Fs go up, not down... IIRC, the final design of the Tumult ended up with a stiffer suspension, due to concerns about the spider surviving under severe abuse, which raised Fs to 19hz just prior to the first production run.

That's my best guess...
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:31 PM   #8 of 39
MarkRoberts
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They come across as full of s--- to me. The tear a car apart statement inparticular.I also think the drivers look weak.

I think Thomas said it best.
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:54 PM   #9 of 39
Aaron Howell
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My thoughts have been verified by this thread already.

I'm sure people would be a little more open to his products if he didn't make such outlandish statements. This guys needs to hire some PR soon...very soon!
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Old 12-30-2004, 05:54 PM   #10 of 39
Scott Simonian
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Quote:
I think Thomas said it best.


Three or four eightteens is my kind of party!

Quote:
They exhibit NO audible power compression for audio applications, and can handle 4kW "peak RMS" power. NO other driver in the workd can make that claim.


What about the 2 year old Brahma Extreme?



Another supporter of 1080p and uncompressed multi-channel sound!

My Twin 18's. 50cuft of box, tuned to 11hz and with 2k watts on tap.
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Old 12-30-2004, 06:03 PM   #11 of 39
Shawn Solar
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The term "peak rms" is enough to make me wonder. how can you have a peak AND rms is it one or the other
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