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[ Wow check out these fancy cables! (Uhh...) ]

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Old 04-05-2003, 03:54 AM   #1 of 18
Brett DiMichele
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Wow check out these fancy cables! (Uhh...)


"****** ****** packs an amazing degree of advanced technology in this interconnect. Golden Cross features patented ****** "Golden Section," multi-gauge stranding in helical hex array of golden ratio, constant "Q" conductors.It boasts 752 discrete pure copper conductors (for a 5.5 awg.) ensuring full-spectrum signal transfer for unbeatable performance."

* = Name Omitted

I ran this through the Babelfish Cable Jibberish to English
Translator and this is what it came up with.

"Our cables are round and transmit a signal, Yeah definatlu
yeah."

*Shakes Head*

What the heck is a Constant-Q Conductor? I have heard of
Constant-Q Filters but never in a conductor.. Hurmph!




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Old 04-05-2003, 10:11 AM   #2 of 18
Dan Kaps
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Here's another from the same manufacturer about their speaker cables:

"****** ******** features patented ****** "Golden Section," multi-gauge stranding in a symmetrical, 12 conductor helical tri-axial design of quad-axial planetary arrays of golden ratio, constant "Q" conductors."

This partial description was for a 3 meter pair of speaker cables that was priced at just under $2,400.
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Old 04-05-2003, 11:53 AM   #3 of 18
Brett DiMichele
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Dan,

Damn ya beat me to it.. that was the one I wanted to post
but couldn't find the description on..

Damn them Planetary Array's... Loookin out there for dem
extra teeerestrials..




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Old 04-07-2003, 05:20 PM   #4 of 18
Lee Scoggins
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Quote:
What the heck is a Constant-Q Conductor?


Brett,

You need to open up your mind. I use Cardas Golden Reference and believe me the golden stranding makes a difference. I tried over two dozen pairs of interconnect in my system before settling on Cardas top of the line. I like Nordost too but I'm not that rich yet.

Many consider Cardas to be among the best cable you can buy. Telarc and Chesky Records have used and praised Cardas cable in the past as well as have many recording studios in US and Europe.

As for Golden Ratio, you need to visit: www.cardas.com which explains both the math (which whole books have been written on) and the technology behind the cable. Constant Q is explained very well on the site also.

If you want something less expensive check out the $20 interconnect that Sam Tellig mentions in this month's Stereophile, but don't make a drive-by attack on Cardas unless you understand and experience the technology.




no fears alone at night she's sailing through the crowd
in her ears the phones are tight and the music's playing loud
~skateaway
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Old 04-07-2003, 08:39 PM   #5 of 18
Chu Gai
 
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You may need this after you've opened your head up.

Make sure you drink the contents before using though.
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Old 04-08-2003, 01:27 AM   #6 of 18
Brett DiMichele
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Lee okay what's a Quasi Planetary Array?

So let me get this straight, I am closed minded because my
belief that Cable Alchemy is a farce differs from your
belief that quasi planetary array's make you hear things in
your music you never heard before?

I am allowed to not believe and I am sorry but no amount
of convincing even from the creator would change my view.
I believe blindly in a god, but speaker cables are not
something I need to have faith in.

Yes I am closed minded because when I open my mind all that
cold air hitting my brain causes headaches!

If you enjoy your Constant-Q Quasi Planetary Array's in the
Golden Ratio then by golly I am happy for ya! I am glad that
for $2400.00 you are happy!




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Old 04-08-2003, 02:31 AM   #7 of 18
Mat_M
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I visited the US patent office to read the patents Cardas has. I am in the second year of the Master's Degree in EE with emphasis on electromagnetics, so I claim to understand the technology. Just a few interesting points:

"The cable strands are commonly twisted about the longitudinal centerline of the cable and encased within an insulating sheath which confines the body of strands radially of the cable. For reasons which are well understood in the electrical art and need not be explained in this disclosure, such multi-strand cables are characterized by enhanced electrical and mechanical properties relative to a single conductor cable. Among the foremost of these enhanced properties are improved fidelity and phase coherence in the case of audio and data signal transmission cables, and reduced electrical power losses and increased cable strength-to-weight ratio in the case of electrical power transmission cables or lines."

Really? The purpose of multistranded cabling is to reduce skin effect. Skin effect DOES NOT happen in audio frequencies. As an example, at 1GHz, the skin depth in copper is 0.000082 inches (http://signalintegrity.com/pubs/news/skineffect.htm).

"Fluctuations in the current flow through the cable strands produces corresponding fluctuations in the strand charges and thereby in the repulsion forces between adjacent strands. These fluctuations in the repulsion forces interact, in effect, with the resilient resisting forces on the strands in a manner which tends to cause relative back and forth lateral motion, that is, vibration, of the strands. The resulting relative vibratory movements or displacements of the cable strands vary their reactances and thereby introduce additional fluctuations and frequency components into the current flow through the cable."

Wow...really...this happens with power lines. We *might* (and that's a BIG might) be seeing this phenomenon in interconnects with lateral values in the NANOmeters. Ever see your speaker cables vibrate? Didn't think so. Think it does in interconnects? Very unlikely.

"The basic purpose of this invention is to reduce or substantially eliminate resonance in a multi-strand electrical cable having conductive wire strands of differing sizes (i.e.cross-sections)and thereby avoid the above-noted and other adverse consequences of such resonance." Anyone know what the resonance of an audio cable is (3ft-10ft)? Yep, it's in the megaHertz.

"In all of the disclosed embodiments, the cable strands are arranged in such a way that larger strands are located radially outward of smaller strands to stabilize the smaller strands against resonant vibration."

Why do the inner/smaller strands need to be 'stabalized'? The outer ones don't need to be? Do any of them 'really' need to be 'stabalized'? So current only flows through the inner strands? We are talking about micro and milliamps here. NOT 69kV lines as the patent tries to relate to.

My guess would be that the $2400 goes to pay for braiding the strands.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:13 AM   #8 of 18
Brett DiMichele
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Mat,

It's nice to hear from the science side of things
While talking to an EE friend of mine he also reinforced
that Skin Effect isn't even an issue in the audible spectrum
at all.

He read some of this cable alchemy and he thanked me for the
laughs he was belly rolling all day long

My guess is the cost comes from that whole Golden Ratio
Braiding.. It must take fancy equipment to do..

What's really funny to me is that if I don't "believe" a
cable makes a difference then I must be a Tin Eared Noob
and certainly not an Audiophile since I can not distinguish
between a piece of 99.99% OFC 12AWG and a pair of "High End"
cables.

Wanna impress me? Make a speaker cable with 939 strands of
pure cryo treated copper and have each little strand indi-
vidialy coated with teflon and then have the whole deal
encased in unobtainum with gold pressed latinum connectors.






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Brett DiMichele
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:21 AM   #9 of 18
Mat_M
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Old 04-08-2003, 10:00 AM   #10 of 18
alan halvorson
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Here's my guess at the price breakdown of this $2400 cable: Dealer profit = $1200, manufacturer profit = $1100, cost to manufacture + overhead = $100. The later is probably high.



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