Warner Bros.: which titles "deserve" lossless audio?

Bryan Beckman · 09-05-2008, 07:04 AM

I don't want to be overly rancorous in addressing this, but the lamentable trend of Warner Bros. giving certain Blu-ray releases lossy DD5.1 audio instead of the lossless treatment continues to disappoint me. We've already gone through this with "Speed Racer", which either (a) didn't make enough money at the box office to "deserve" lossless audio, or (b) doesn't need lossless audio because it's a "kids movie," whatever that inexplicable logic means. (It reminds me of Disney's marketing MAR-ed live-action releases as being presented in "family friendly widescreen," as if thick black bars was a leading cause for broken homes in this country.)

So now we have another announced release from Warners, "Kit Kittredge: An American Girl," with Abigail Breslin, Stanley Tucci, et al. I never got around to seeing it in theaters, but it did pretty well with critics (79% on RT), and it looks like a nice rental. It had fairly modest box office, about $17M, but with a reported budget of only $10M, this is hardly the financial catastrophe for WB that "Speed Racer" was.

Well, you can probably guess what's coming next . . . here's the back cover art for the Blu-ray release of "Kit Kittredge":

Kit Kittredge: An American Girl

No extras (granted, there may not have been the budget to produce any), and lossy DD5.1 audio. This is not exactly an unprofitable movie for Warners (at least, after DVD sales/rentals, it won't be), so what's going on? Is lossless audio somehow not "family friendly"? What decision rubric is being applied here? Apparently blockbuster family hits like "Harry Potter" get lossless. But something like "Iron Giant," if and when it comes to Blu-ray, probably won't.

I just don't get it.

Howard Tom · 09-05-2008, 09:27 AM

I think the issue here is may be which disc type is being used: single layer of 25 GB or dual-layer of 50 GB. A single layer Blu-Ray disc is cheaper and probably easier to produce than a dual-layer (and I seem to recall an issue with reliability of yields for DL discs early on), but has less capacity than an HD-DVD, which may explain why it sounds like some Universal BR reissues of HD-DVD titles actually required applying more DNR and/or compression to fit this time around. And this would mean less space available for a lossless audio track. I would assume non "A"-list releases would not go the dual-layer route but might also be sold for a bit less retail as a result?

Howard

Michael Reuben · 09-05-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Beckman

Well, you can probably guess what's coming next . . . here's the back cover art for the Blu-ray release of "Kit Kittredge":

Kit Kittredge: An American Girl

As I recall, some of the early materials for Speed Racer promised lossless audio. The lesson should be obvious: Don't rely too much on initial PR releases.

M.

Rhoq · 09-05-2008, 10:14 AM

My answer to the title of this thread is "all of them". Even if the movie was a poor box office performer or an older catalog title with a mono soundtrack, all titles deserve to have lossless audio on Blu-ray. It just doesn't make sense why any studio would go not include lossless audio.

Even the budget Blu-ray releases from Echo Bridge have lossless and they are on BD25s, too.

Bryan Beckman · 09-05-2008, 10:19 AM

Yes, the early press materials for "Speed Racer" featured the Dolby TrueHD logo, but the back cover art said Dolby Digital 5.1. (I'm crossing my fingers for the actual BD review, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high that the back cover spec is incorrect.) The site I linked to for "Kit Kittredge" features the back cover art, which is where I got my info. While they don't have perfect reliability, cover art specs are much less subject to change than early press releases.

**HTF Ads**

Ed St. Clair · 09-05-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Tom

I think the issue here is may be which disc type is being used: single layer of 25 GB or dual-layer of 50 GB. A single layer Blu-Ray disc is cheaper and probably easier to produce than a dual-layer (and I seem to recall an issue with reliability of yields for DL discs early on), but has less capacity than an HD-DVD, which may explain why it sounds like some Universal BR reissues of HD-DVD titles actually required applying more DNR and/or compression to fit this time around. And this would mean less space available for a lossless audio track. I would assume non "A"-list releases would not go the dual-layer route but might also be sold for a bit less retail as a result?

Howard

Sacrilege!
(JJ)

EDitEDbyED:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoq

My answer to the title of this thread is "all of them". Even if the movie was a poor box office performer or an older catalog title with a mono soundtrack, all titles deserve to have lossless audio on Blu-ray. It just doesn't make sense why any studio would go not include lossless audio.

Even the budget Blu-ray releases from Echo Bridge have lossless and they are on BD25s, too.

Hooray!!!
I so glad someone else feels its not HiDef w/o HiDef sound.

Man & I've gone even crazier than that; I'm now addicted to LPCM soundtracks! =-I
(something I didn't EVEN care about at 1st, as I was OK w/lossless, now its uncompressed BABY!!!)

Michael Reuben · 09-05-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair

Man & I've gone even crazier than that; I'm now addicted to LPCM soundtracks! =-I
(something I didn't EVEN care about at 1st, as I was OK w/lossless, now its uncompressed BABY!!!)

"Crazy" is definitely the correct term.

M.

Ed St. Clair · 09-05-2008, 05:05 PM

M,
Have you heard the Stones in LPCM?!?!?!
:-0 :-0 :-0
:-) :-) :-)

Paint it Black, BABY!!!
;-)

CraigF · 09-05-2008, 05:06 PM

An HD movie is not HD unless the audio is too. As simple as that for me.

Regardless of an individual's hearing ability...the common reason some use to say we don't really need it. Some people can't see too well either, but we don't have 480i "HD" video to accomodate them...

Keep the standards high and let people grow into them.

Michael Reuben · 09-05-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair

M,
Have you heard the Stones in LPCM?!?!?!
:-0 :-0 :-0
:-) :-) :-)

Paint it Black, BABY!!!
;-)

I don't actually remember which lossless format I selected on Shine a Light, and I don't care, because, you know, it's, like, lossless.

M.