WB poor choice in audio for Terminator 3 - Page 2

Douglas Monce · 12-07-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Martin

The T3 disc in the US didn't have one so unless someone is talking about a non-R1 release, the DD track was 448.
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You're right. I was thinking of the Terminator 2 Ultimate Edition.

Doug

Dave Moritz · 12-08-2007, 09:43 PM

It's nice that the DD+ track is 640k but I still feel the offering of DD on the Blu-ray version of T3 is weak and a poor choice. I say that because they could have offered higher bit DD+ at minimum. They also could have offered Dolby True HD, Uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. But they did not just like most of the WB HD titles out there. Most of them are low bit rate DD+ tracks. While yes there are a few DT-HD tracks that WB released on HD-DVD they also have DN. The only reason I am glad to own the HD-DVD version of T3 is because of the 1080p transfer.

So while the 640k DD may be considered to be better than 448k DD. I feel the title of the thread still stands, WB choice of DD track for a Blu-ray release of T3 is poor!

Douglas Monce · 12-09-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Moritz

It's nice that the DD+ track is 640k but I still feel the offering of DD on the Blu-ray version of T3 is weak and a poor choice. I say that because they could have offered higher bit DD+ at minimum. They also could have offered Dolby True HD, Uncompressed PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. But they did not just like most of the WB HD titles out there. Most of them are low bit rate DD+ tracks. While yes there are a few DT-HD tracks that WB released on HD-DVD they also have DN. The only reason I am glad to own the HD-DVD version of T3 is because of the 1080p transfer.

So while the 640k DD may be considered to be better than 448k DD. I feel the title of the thread still stands, WB choice of DD track for a Blu-ray release of T3 is poor!

I think early on Warner's wasn't putting DD + or True HD on their blu-ray titles because of the lack of players able to decode these formats. Honestly at this point I don't know how many blu-ray players can now decode DD+ or true HD. I know mine can't.

Doug

Michael Reuben · 12-09-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Moritz

They also could have offered . . . DTS-HD Master Audio.

Now that would be a poor choice for audio in the current hardware environment, as most owners of Fox discs with this as the lossless option can confirm.

M.

Adam Barratt · 12-09-2007, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Dolby True HD is aprox 18mbit/sec for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD I belive? I someone knows the actual bitrate for HD media please let me know.

TrueHD (with a 16-bit source) usually sits around 2.3Mbps, but is variable bit-rate. 18Mbps is possible, but wouldn't be very useful for movie soundtracks given that an uncompressed six-channel 24-bit 48kHz PCM soundtrack consumes only 6.9Mbps! 18Mbps is the peak datarate, and would allow eight channels of 24-bit 96kHz audio, which is nice but of little practical use.

Quote:

Dolby Digital and DTS are capable of using sampling frequencies of 32, 44.1, or 48kHz (DTS can also function at up to 192kHz)... Consumer Dolby Digital operates exclusively with a 48kHz sampling frequency. DTS on DVD also uses a sampling rate of 48kHz. Both Dolby Digital and DTS are capable of 24-bit resolution, but currently nominally operate at 18-bit resolution, allowing a dynamic range of approximately 108dB.

Dave, while imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I would certainly appreciate it if you would attribute large chunks of text taken directly from one of my own articles to me!

Quote:

The vast majority of standard definition consumer equipment simply cannot play it.

Michael, every external Dolby Digital decoder with an S/PDIF input must able to decode 640kbps Dolby Digital, as it is one of the decoder's requirements for certification. As Dolby state in their encoding guidelines:

"Decoders with an IEC 61937 (S/PDIF) input for Dolby Digital bitstreams must be able to accept data rates up to 640 kb/s, and sample rates of 48, 44.1, and 32 kHz, to allow for the possibility of new delivery formats. This requirement does not apply to ATSC-compliant DTV sets, which only need support data rates through 448 kb/s at the 48 kHz sample rate."

These standards don't apply to DVD-Video players, but while the format itself is 'technically' restricted to 448kbps, most players will happily output 640kbps Dolby Digital. Around eight years ago I had a DVD surround sampler that included a 'hidden' 640kbps version of the 1812 Overture, and I never had a problem playing it on any equipment available at the time.

Adam

Michael Reuben · 12-09-2007, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Around eight years ago I had a DVD surround sampler that included a 'hidden' 640kbps version of the 1812 Overture, and I never had a problem playing it on any equipment available at the time.

I still have that sampler, and while my all my Lexicons could play it, I remember reports of early decoders that couldn't. Then again, I suppose it's not surprising to find problems with first-gen hardware, and I defer to higher authority.

As I said above, the important point remains that DD tracks on standard definition DVDs topped out at 448kb/ps, with the occasional exception of an alternate track like the Pulse DVD. Adam, would you agree that it's erroneous to assert that DD+ at 640kb/ps is "the same" as standard DD? That's the only point that really counts.

M.

Adam Barratt · 12-09-2007, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Adam, would you agree that it's erroneous to assert that DD+ at 640kb/ps is "the same" as standard DD? That's the only point that really counts.

Well, they're not the 'same', but the sound quality of both formats at that bit-rate should be identical for all intents and purposes. It's only at lower and higher bit-rates, or with additional channels, that Dolby Digital Plus really distinguishes itself from Dolby Digital. But then higher bit-rates wouldn't do much good for Terminator 3 as 1536kbps Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 on Blu-ray wouldn't offer much, if any, tangible sonic benefits over 640kbps Dolby Digital due to the way it's delivered.

Adam

EnricoE · 12-09-2007, 08:27 AM

i say: wait for the european release of t3. it will be a sony release and therefor on blu-ray including pcm and/or dolby true-hd.

Michael Reuben · 12-09-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Barratt

but the sound quality of both formats at that bit-rate should be identical for all intents and purposes

Assuming, of course, the availability of a DD soundtrack encoded at 640kb/ps, which almost never exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Barratt

But then higher bit-rates wouldn't do much good for Terminator 3 as 1536kbps Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 on Blu-ray wouldn't offer much, if any, tangible sonic benefits over 640kbps Dolby Digital due to the way it's delivered.

Now I am curious. Please explain.

M.

Jeff Cooper · 12-09-2007, 01:07 PM

So after reading through all of this, it sounds like the HD DVD audio track and the Blu-Ray audio track for this release will be identical, correct? Both of them will be Dolby Digital 640kpbs (the '+' on the end of the HD DVD being just semantical.)

Is this the case?