A few words about...™ Bram Stoker's Dracula -- in BD - Page 8

Dave Mack · 11-18-2007, 06:09 PM

Well, one reason I posted these is because earlier, several suggested that my PJ was dark or the calibration was "off" and it wasn't.
The whole point of the above shot (it would seem since there is a similar one a few minutes earlier) is to have the words from the journal superimposed over Harker (in an old-timey artsy way) and now in the BD for the first time in any version, they are basically invisible. Kinda defeats the purpose of the effect.

Scott Calvert · 11-23-2007, 11:32 AM

Watched this last night. There is no way the black levels on this disc are correct. C'mon, guys. There are several scenes where you can't even make out what is going on. Whole sets and special effects lost in blackness. The dvd versions may have been too bright but it looks like with the bluray they threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Jarod M · 11-23-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

LOL - How many times do those with the film elements have to say the BD disc correctly presents the film?

Not liking it is one thing. Saying "they didn't mean it" is another, and simply untrue.

Two questions for the people in this thread to consider-
1. Do you think the Xylon screenshot is an accurate picture of how the BD disc looks?
2. If your answer to question 1 is yes, then do you think that this reflects FFC's wishes for that scene?

I'm very interested in how many people respond yes to question 2.

Douglas Monce · 11-23-2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarod M

Two questions for the people in this thread to consider-
1. Do you think the Xylon screenshot is an accurate picture of how the BD disc looks?
2. If your answer to question 1 is yes, then do you think that this reflects FFC's wishes for that scene?

I'm very interested in how many people respond yes to question 2.

The SD screen capture actually looks more like what I'm seeing on the blu-ray. The words on the left side of the screen are just visible, very subtle.

Doug

Dave Mack · 11-23-2007, 10:58 PM

Xylon's screen captures are accurate. It's not like what I did aiming a camera at a screen. His are directly off the discs and his rep at AVS is very high. Check out the thread over at AVS, pretty much everyone is concurring that the BD capture of this scene is exactly what they're seeing.
The words had always been clearly visible before in home video and in theatrical prints, (I saw a revival years after it had come out and even after it had hit home video, the words were easily seen) The point of the shot is to show visually what he had been writing in his journal as there was a scene earlier done similarly. It just seems odd to suddenly decide that they just should be crushed into invisibility.
Ans still to this day, FFC himself has not been confirmed as to have even SEEN this transfer let alone approve it. The most we've been told is "a rep from Zoetrope conveyed Coppola's wishes to the guys at Sony doing the transfer"
You know how marketing loves to tout anything they can. If this transfer had been personally supervised by Coppola, you can pretty much guarantee that that would have been in a press release or even printed on the case of the disc.

RickER · 11-25-2007, 11:17 PM

That one shot is my only beef. I missed it the first time, when i rented the disc. I had to pull the SuperBit back out to see what i couldnt see on the Blu-ray. I have to say i really like the Blu-ray disc...minus that bit O' detail.

Frank@N · 11-26-2007, 02:23 PM

As an A2 owner, I can only comment on the 2-disc DVD release.

I wasn't put off by the color 'changes' verse the older DVDs, in fact the color purity, detail in the costumes, and flesh tones seemed better than the Suberbit disc.

However once the plot moves to the castle, the darkness becomes impenertrable and the transfer fails IMHO.

The commentary isn't really that good either, as FFC reports he hasn't seen the movie in years and that the movie 'keeps going' (leaving him unable to keep up).

Maybe if the commentary had been done with his son, it would have worked out better.

I also wish the 'Blood is the Life' doc had been expanded only, instead edited down to make room for newer stuff (was keeping it to 30 minutes a cost issue?).

The DVD packaging is nice, but the cover shot still makes no sense to me. The DVD disc art is also very nice.

Based on all of this, I'm going to sell off my Superbit case with disc1 from the new set in it.

I'll keep the new packaging, my blood-red SB disc, the extras disc.

The new transfer and the commentary just didn't work well enough for me.

Dave Mack · 11-28-2007, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Martin

It looked great here. I still wonder if the issues being reported are because of the technology being used to view them(LCD). I'm pretty sure Dave's PJ is LCD.

Nope. Mits hc3000 DLP. Considered a very good PJ and indeed calibrated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

I don't think the new version of Dracula is desaturated at all. It's just not over saturated.

Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Have you watched the BD version? It's really not THAT different. The scenes that have the fire light in the castle are still pretty warm. It's just that now you can see other colors in the scene that were obviously there all along. I really think this is something that people are missing in this whole conversation. These scenes are really not THAT different from what was on video before. I would describe them as more subtle.

15 years is a long time to remember if a scene was amber, or REALLY amber. I never actually saw this title on home video, I only saw it in the theater, but I can't remember exactly what it looked like then and I think I saw it 3 or 4 times.

Doug

These are taken directly from the discs. That's a pretty dramatic difference. And everyone saying before that perhaps my dispaly was "off" can now see that that's not the case. Maybe those seeing the firelight scene on the new BD as still looking "warm and saturated" need to check their displays as that's certainly not what's on the disc.

This film was always perceived as a riotous, over the top almost operatic looking and EXTREMELEY colorful film. Read any review by critics when it was released. One of the major criticisms also was that the film just wasn't scary. So now in many scenes the color is virtually stripped away like a more modern Tim Burton look, and this is what was right all along? Then why wasn't it just shot that way in the first place? Why spend all the $ on the riotously colorful costumes and sets if they would be virtually monochromatic in the end? Revisionism is fine. Just be up front about it. Coppolla has changed "Apocalypse Now" for home video, altering the AR and the earlier color timing so it's not as if this is unprecedented.

Cees Alons · 11-28-2007, 05:28 AM

Dave,

I'm not sure, but are you now comparing the BD to the DVD again?
And why?

Cees

Dave Mack · 11-28-2007, 05:40 AM

Hiya Cees, because if you re-read the thread in many cases people were saying that my display must have been "off", not "calibrated" and my perceptions were wrong or my own shots were not conclusive. Now thanks to Xylon at AVS who has taken direct captures from both the BD and the DVD, what I and others observed can at least be discussed objectively without the adequacy of my equipment questioned. Before several people said they weren't seeing what I was seeing or that my equipment was wonky. Now with the captures showing EXACTLY how both look, I can at least be exonerated somewhat.
This title is weird. At HTF, we have always been able to discuss software and how it matches the original theatrical presentation as long as everyone was polite and respectful. This title seems to have some weird conditions though.
It's like if one disagrees with the studio line, that's no longer ok.
The shot above where Keanu is kneeling with the words from his journal superimosed over him is now way too dark to even see the words anymore. The fact that this scene and it's effect was previously visible in the "incorrect" looking VHS, LD and DVDs but now in the "accurate" BD is not when it's clearly suppossed to be is interesting. There are also many other shots which have what look like "errors" as well. When Dracula crawls down the castle wall now, yes the blue moonlight is severely reduced but the flame from the torch on the wall, (which is flame colored in other shots) is now green. Green. His robe which is always red now looks almost purple.

This "revised" shot seems like a mistake. It looks too dark now for the effect the filmmakers were clearly trying to achieve with the superimposed words. It happens in transfers. Not every transfer is flawless. Ususally at HTF when we notice things in a new transfer that are different, framing, color, brightness issues, we can discuss them and it's ok. With this title it really seems that any criticism is "verboten" for some strange reason. I'm sorry I continued but now that I have the actual screengrabs, I wanted to show that what I specifically was talking about was not a product of my display being "inferior" or "off" is all.

Since the other thread was closed and this sort of became the official BSD thread, isn't it okay to still rationally and politely discuss this disc?

d