A few words about...™ Bram Stoker's Dracula -- in BD - Page 6

Douglas Monce · 10-09-2007, 07:01 PM

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I was post production executive on the film in 1991-1992 and I always was horrified at what the home video and TV editions of Dracula looked like because they were so far from what Coppola and Ballhaus had done for the original release prints. So orange-y. So bright. Zoetrope’s role in the new transfer was to make sure that the transfer colorist had access to a pristine original “final answer print” to screen and refer to. A final answer print is a vaulted 35mm film print in Sony’s possession that bears a signature from the original production indicating that the director or director of photography was satisfied with the color timing and that this print was to be the gold standard...the reference for all 35mm release prints to be compared with and accepted/rejected.

I'm not sure why this statement is so difficult to understand or believe. I really think this is a classic example of people thinking they remember what the film looked like in the theater. What they are really remembering is all the times they watched it on home video. I suspect that the previous home video versions look the way they do because if they had released the film as it looked in the theater, it would have looked rather dull on the equipment of the day.

By the way, I'm seeing quite a bit of film grain on this BD version of Dracula.

Doug

RobertR · 10-09-2007, 07:07 PM

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I have never read a quote from Lucas or seen an interview with him where he said that he never intended for Han to shoot first.

I have seen quotes from him saying exactly that.

Douglas Monce · 10-09-2007, 07:09 PM

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Originally Posted by RobertR

I have seen quotes from him saying exactly that.

Where? I'd be interested to read that.

Doug

RobertR · 10-09-2007, 07:23 PM

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Where? I'd be interested to read that.

Doug

http://industrycentral.net/director_interviews/GL01.HTM

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On altering the cantina confrontation between Han Solo and Greedo

It was always meant that Greedo fired first. In the original film you don't get that too well. But in terms of Han's character, I didn't like the fact that when he was introduced the first thing he did is just gun somebody down in cold blood. That wasn't what was meant to be there.

Bryan^H · 10-09-2007, 08:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

I'm not sure why this statement is so difficult to understand or believe. I really think this is a classic example of people thinking they remember what the film looked like in the theater. What they are really remembering is all the times they watched it on home video. I suspect that the previous home video versions look the way they do because if they had released the film as it looked in the theater, it would have looked rather dull on the equipment of the day.

By the way, I'm seeing quite a bit of film grain on this BD version of Dracula.

Doug

I watched it 3 times at the theater, and I'm 100% positive that it was indeed closer to the Superbit dvd. the orange-y color tones are what I saw in the theater. My local cinema must have had an extremely damaged reel, because no matter what, I don't think the color tones would change that dramatically from the original 35 mm answer print. Look, I don't care about this "changing coke to pepsi" argument. What I do care about is when people bring in to question the validity of other peoples memories. If Luke Skywalker's Light Saber was green instead of blue in A New Hope, no one would dare question the fact that it is different from what was shown in theaters, but because this is Dracula, all of a sudden people can't remeber the color tones of what they witnessed at theaters? Where is the logic in that?

Douglas Monce · 10-09-2007, 08:22 PM

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Originally Posted by RobertR

http://industrycentral.net/director_interviews/GL01.HTM

Well having just looked at the original cut of the film I can see how its ambiguous. There is a flash of white and some smoke and Greedo falls. You can't really tell if Greedo shot at all. In fact you can't really tell if Han shot either.

Doug

Douglas Monce · 10-09-2007, 08:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Bryan^H

I watched it 3 times at the theater, and I'm 100% positive that it was indeed closer to the Superbit dvd. the orange-y color tones are what I saw in the theater. My local cinema must have had an extremely damaged reel, because no matter what, I don't think the color tones would change that dramatically from the original 35 mm answer print. Look, I don't care about this "changing coke to pepsi" argument. What I do care about is when people bring in to question the validity of other peoples memories. If Luke Skywalker's Light Saber was green instead of blue in A New Hope, no one would dare question the fact that it is different from what was shown in theaters, but because this is Dracula, all of a sudden people can't remeber the color tones of what they witnessed at theaters? Where is the logic in that?

Have you watched the BD version? It's really not THAT different. The scenes that have the fire light in the castle are still pretty warm. It's just that now you can see other colors in the scene that were obviously there all along. I really think this is something that people are missing in this whole conversation. These scenes are really not THAT different from what was on video before. I would describe them as more subtle.

15 years is a long time to remember if a scene was amber, or REALLY amber. I never actually saw this title on home video, I only saw it in the theater, but I can't remember exactly what it looked like then and I think I saw it 3 or 4 times.

Doug

RobertR · 10-09-2007, 08:36 PM

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Well having just looked at the original cut of the film I can see how its ambiguous.

You say that now, but was there any doubt in your mind about who shot first prior to 1997? Can you point to ANY quote by ANYONE prior to 1997 who thought it was "ambiguous" about who shot first? Also, why all the fuss and outrage if people thought it was "ambiguous"? Please. You know and I know and EVERYONE knows that the original scene shows Han shooting first.

Here is an excerpt from the January 15, 1976 Star Wars script written by George Lucas:

http://starwarz.com/starkiller/scrip..._draft_jan.htm

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GREEDO
You can tell that to Jabba. He
may only take your ship.

HAN
Over my dead body.

GREEDO
That's the idea I've been looking
forward to killing you for a long
time.

HAN
Yes, I'll bet you have.

Suddenly the slimy alien disappears in a blinding flash of light. Han pulls his smoking gun from beneath the table as the other patrons look on in bemused amazement. Han gets up and starts out of the cantina, flipping the bartender some coins as he leaves.

Show me where it talks about Greedo shooting at ALL.

BrianB · 10-09-2007, 08:37 PM

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Bram Stoker's Unpleasantville

That really adds to the discussion.

Douglas Monce · 10-09-2007, 08:39 PM

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Originally Posted by RobertR

You say that now, but was there any doubt in your mind about who shot first prior to 1997? Can you point to ANY quote by ANYONE prior to 1997 who thought it was "ambiguous" about who shot first? Also, why all the fuss and outrage if people thought it was "ambiguous"? Please. You know and I know and EVERYONE knows that the original scene shows Han shooting first.

Here is an excerpt from the January 15, 1976 Star Wars script written by George Lucas:

http://starwarz.com/starkiller/scrip..._draft_jan.htm

Show me where it talks about Greedo shooting at ALL.

I'm not talking about the script I'm talking about the finished film. Frankly I was 11 when I saw it in 77 so I don't really remember what I though other than I was startled. Honestly that is a moment where for a second or two a first time viewer has no idea what happened.

Doug