Sleeping Beauty BD - 2008 - Page 6

Ed St. Clair · 08-19-2008, 10:11 PM

Yeah!
Both of you are on to my question of how is this new transfer for original film elements going to show the entire cell art. With no difinitive answer in sight (pi).
Should be interesting & one for the record books.

EDitEDbyED:
Are there any sources, books or programs, w/pics of the original cells?
I'm going to check the special features from the SD DVD of "SB".

Douglas Monce · 08-20-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair

Yeah!
Both of you are on to my question of how is this new transfer for original film elements going to show the entire cell art. With no difinitive answer in sight (pi).
Should be interesting & one for the record books.

EDitEDbyED:
Are there any sources, books or programs, w/pics of the original cells?
I'm going to check the special features from the SD DVD of "SB".

The statement that the "whole cell would be seen for the first time" was probably hyperbole on the part of Disney. Either that or the marketing department simply has no idea what they are talking about.

Doug

DavidJ · 08-20-2008, 02:49 AM

It wouldn't be the first time for a marketing department.

I always find these discussions quite interesting. The history and technical specifics of the "traditionally" animated films is a weak spot in my cinema knowledge, so I always learn something.

DaViD Boulet · 08-20-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

The statement that the "whole cell would be seen for the first time" was probably hyperbole on the part of Disney. Either that or the marketing department simply has no idea what they are talking about.

Actually what I said earlier was this:

Quote:

that's basically what the Disney reps at the BD Live event in DC (this past Monday, June 16) said... that the "original film/photography was 2.55:1" and that the new Blu-ray Disc will be the first time any consumer has had a chance to see the full, uncropped image... inlcuding consumers who saw the original theatrical projection. They were adamant that the 2.55:1 presentation for the Blu-ray was the "complete image" with additional left/right information extending beyond any previously seen framing, and that the 2.55:1 was *not* achieved by cropping any top/bottom as the mishap with the Ben-Hur edition that boasted OAR only to actually be an over-cropped print (I even mentioned that example to try to be sure they understood what I was trying to verify).

Now... I'm not vouching for the correctness of their assertion. Only that this was indeed what they had to say.

The Disney reps I spoke with were talking about the large-format film negative, not the "cells", in regards to the 2.55:1 aspect ratio.

Stephen_J_H · 08-20-2008, 11:25 PM

It should also be noted that in the case of Ben-Hur, the overcropping was the result of Warner misunderstanding the hue and cry from the HT community about OAR and cropping a 35mm element to 2.76:1. If Disney is going back to original 8 perf elements (which has been confirmed by RAH), overcropping shouldn't be an issue.

OliverK · 08-21-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H

It should also be noted that in the case of Ben-Hur, the overcropping was the result of Warner misunderstanding the hue and cry from the HT community about OAR and cropping a 35mm element to 2.76:1. If Disney is going back to original 8 perf elements (which has been confirmed by RAH), overcropping shouldn't be an issue.

I am at a loss as to how 8 perf elements can yield an aspect ratio of 2.55 without top and bottom cropping - the whole frame would yield a 2.25 aspect ratio in its unsqueezed form. Either they go back to the original artwork and use previously unused areas of the cels or they have to crop the 8 perf negative.

Robert Harris · 08-21-2008, 11:49 AM

TLA was a format that was "croppable."

The photographed image most likely simply runs out at the edges, and was cropped to create 2.35 for 35mm and 2.21 for 70.

The point is that there has always been a bit more information, and that is what is being exposed for the first time in this release on home video.

I have great faith that things are being handled correctly, and can confirm that there is no guessing going on with SB.

A Q & A with the archivist responsible for the work will go on line closer to the release date.

Stephen_J_H · 08-21-2008, 12:44 PM

I look forward to the Q & A with the archivist. Thanks, RAH.

Kris Z. · 08-21-2008, 01:19 PM

So let me see if I understand this correctly:

The cels would be captured onto 8-perf Technirama film, with an aspect ratio of 2.35:1, but would likely have unfinished animation on the top and bottom, supposed to be cropped off to create a 2.55:1 aspect ratio intended for the old CinemaScope.

This cropped 2.55:1 film would then have its sides further cropped to create the 2.35:1 and 2.20:1 ratios for the new CinemaScope and 70mm respectively.

And it is this latter "double-cropped" image that has been on previous editions of Sleeping Beauty, and now we're getting the original 2.55:1 image scanned from the original 8-perf negative?

Stephen_J_H · 08-21-2008, 04:54 PM

Yep, pretty much.

Paul Hillenbrand · 08-22-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

TLA was a format that was "croppable."

The photographed image most likely simply runs out at the edges, and was cropped to create 2.35 for 35mm and 2.21 for 70.

The point is that there has always been a bit more information, and that is what is being exposed for the first time in this release on home video.

I have great faith that things are being handled correctly, and can confirm that there is no guessing going on with SB.

A Q & A with the archivist responsible for the work will go on line closer to the release date.

There was an image of a Sleeping Beauty Cell that was posted on an HTF thread years ago that showed the amount of information that was missing in a frame on both the widescreen &/or pan & scan home versions.

I copied it at the time because it was informative, but sorry, I don't remember who posted it or what thread it came from.

Hopefully this will help determine, at least for this frame, how much of the information on the cell below will actually be on the Blu-ray disc.

Maybe the person who posted it will recognize it here .

Paul