GAH! Stop it with the SACD/DVD-A comparisons!

Nick Graham · 06-04-2007, 07:11 PM

More and more people are comparing this format war to SACD vs DVD-A. The Bits just posted similar thoughts, and it scares me that this mindset is starting to reach critical mass. Maybe my memory is foggy regarding the SACD/DVD-A war, but I don't seem to remember there being any real level of commitment from the content providers of either. How many big albums were released day and date on SACD or DVD-A? If I remember right, you could count the number on your hands and have fingers to spare. How many big gun catalog albums were released on DVD-A or SACD? Sony released a lot of Dylan, if I recall, and DVD-A had just about the entire R.E.M. catalog, as well as Metallica's black album, but the pickins' got pretty slim from there. The people behind SACD and DVD-A never made a solid attempt to gain acceptance. I don't recall seeing ads before the movies touting them, I never saw a commercial for an upcoming album saying "coming soon to CD and SACD" like I do with just about every DVD that is released day and date with Blu or HD.

HD Optical is going nowhere - this war won't last forever, as too much money has been invested in optical HD's future for it to be given up on. While I have little doubt that Microsoft's involvement in this war is motivated by their desire to see streaming/downloadable media take the crown, I don't know if I an swallow the conspiracy that they are behind Universal's neutrality. Wouldn't Universal have some actual movie content on Xbox Live if they were in cahoots? Anyway, this idea that supporters of one format over another is going to kill HD optical likely found its genesis from folks who have a vested interest in one format beating the other, and they know that there are still too many variables to truly declare a victor. It saddens me that people who were around when SACD/DVD-A had their little skirmish are comparing that apple to this orange - when you look at the variety and price of players available, and the variety of titles, both of those formats went into battle waiving white flags from the get-go.

Paul Arnette · 06-04-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

HD Optical is going nowhere...

Its going nowhere alright!

Seriously, I know my, and I think a lot of others who use the SACD/DVD-A comparisons do so out of frustration. They probably also do so out of fear. That being said, that is the level of viability I attach to these formats while there is a format war and a divided consumer base.

Douglas Monce · 06-04-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Arnette

Its going nowhere alright!

Seriously, I know my, and I think a lot of others who use the SACD/DVD-A comparisons do so out of frustration. They probably also do so out of fear. That being said, that is the level of viability I attach to these formats while there is a format war and a divided consumer base.

I find the comparison very interesting because as someone who is not audiophile, I didn't even know that these formats existed till I started coming here about a year ago. I never saw a magazine add or a tv commercial for them.

Unless the proponents of HD get off their butts and start informing the general public about HD, most people are going to be in the same position I was with SACD/DVD-A and not even have a clue that it exists.

Doug

Marc Colella · 06-04-2007, 10:03 PM

Like it or not, there are some similarities between HD-DVD/BluRay and DVD-A/SACD.

- both HD Video and HD Audio had preceeding formats that used 5" discs which were very popular (CD and DVD)
- HD-DVD has the ability for Hybrid discs just like SACD
- Sony is the main proponent of Blu-Ray and SACD
- Both HD Video and Audio formats are trying to sell the benefits of extra resolution in a time where a growing number of average consumers seem to have no problem sacrificing quality for portability (MP3 and Divx)

There are some differences though... the fact that people care more about video quality than they do audio, and that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray have a bigger marketing push. However, I still think HD Video has niche written all over it - even if it is a bigger niche than HD Audio.

Paul Arnette · 06-04-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

However, I still think HD Video has niche written all over it - even if it is a bigger niche than HD Audio.

I agree with this, and I don't necessarily think it would be a bad thing if there were one format. When I think about how much less success Laserdisc would have had with a competing format I shudder.

**HTF Ads**

Norman Matthews · 06-04-2007, 11:07 PM

The comparison just doesn't hold for me because movies and music are two such different paradigms. People expect their music to be portable -- more often than not, for most people it's consumed on the go. Neither of those two formats lent themselves to that, and when you are consuming it on the go, you're probably not equipped to get the benefits of the format anyway.

Movies, on the other hand, are still usually consumed at home in a static set-up and, in the vast majority of instances, the user doesn't have to sacrifice the benefits that HD brings. So, when the time comes to get a new DVD player, it makes sense for many people to get an HD-capable player. When the time came to get a new CD player, it still didn't make sense for the average person who listens to most of their music in the car on the way to work and through headphones while on the treadmill at the gym to go with SACD or DVD-A. (And, truth be told, when the time came to get a new CD player, most people got an iPod instead. That's not to say I think video on demand will become HD media's iPod, since a lot of the issues I describe above apply in the reverse in that case.)

Marc Colella · 06-05-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Matthews

So, when the time comes to get a new DVD player, it makes sense for many people to get an HD-capable player.

Actually, that's not what I'm seeing.

I'm seeing people purchase another DVD player (as an extra player or a replacement for a damaged one) that plays Divx/Xvid codecs. The ability to play these movies has become very important to many people, and the price of these dvix/xvid compatible players are ridiculously low (as low as $40 CAD). I personally know about 30 people who own these types of players (all of which isn't their first player), and most of them don't even notice a difference between these compressed .avi's and DVD - and the ones that do are fine with it.

ppltd · 06-05-2007, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colella

Like it or not, there are some similarities between HD-DVD/BluRay and DVD-A/SACD.

- both HD Video and HD Audio had preceeding formats that used 5" discs which were very popular (CD and DVD)
- HD-DVD has the ability for Hybrid discs just like SACD
- Sony is the main proponent of Blu-Ray and SACD
- Both HD Video and Audio formats are trying to sell the benefits of extra resolution in a time where a growing number of average consumers seem to have no problem sacrificing quality for portability (MP3 and Divx)

There are some differences though... the fact that people care more about video quality than they do audio, and that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray have a bigger marketing push. However, I still think HD Video has niche written all over it - even if it is a bigger niche than HD Audio.

These are all valid points. One additional point should be added. There was absolutely no underpining demand from the public for higher quality audio. SACD and it's counterpart were products attempting to create demand, a pretty difficult thing to do for a product that is seeking mass market approval. HD and BD are in the exact same camp, they are products created to fill a demand that does not exist in the general market place.

Jim_K · 06-05-2007, 06:45 AM

Yeah, the doom and gloom scenarios for HD media are a bit much lately. Happens every time after actual sales figures are posted. I think some of us have unrealistic expectations for formats barely a year old.

HDTV's are a niche right now so it's to be expected HD media would be the same. Realistically I expect the growth to be slow but steady over the next couple of years.

The "golden egg" of the entertainment industry is starting to turn to lead with "DVD" sales down 14% compared to last year so more than ever they're motivated to grow these next gen formats into a future revenue stream.

When I become the voice of optimism there's a problem.

Yeesh, Chill out people.