The Digital Bits - "Officially Blu-ray" Soapbox - Page 9

todd s · 06-04-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

Bill Gates no longer runs Microsoft, at least on a daily basis. He is busy with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation now.

Doug, I read over your response so quick. I thought you said

Quote:

He is "getting" busy with Melinda Gates now.

Jari K · 06-04-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

..it is that very war that
has driven down hardware and software prices far faster than if
there was a single format. In other words, this ware has created
a massive competition to drive down prices on both sides..

This is probably the only "good" thing about the format war and it´s focusing on the hardware. Personally, I don´t see that this war has much effect on the software releases (=movies) or their prices. Sure, Blu has e.g. "Pirates" and HD DVD has e.g. "Matrix" - big blockbusters, but I can´t say that these sides "compete" by releasing classics one after the other, at this point at least.

IMO, give me 850$ HD-player & one format anyday over 250$ HD DVD + 600$ PS3. Sure, the HD-players are not that expensive and e.g. PS3 has "everything", but the fact remains; You have to buy two players and spend that (approx) 850$ to enjoy ALL HD-releases..

Jari K · 06-04-2007, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

I can honestly say that this thread has absolutely been the most civil, informative source of non-flamatory opinions and discussion from both sides that I have read to date in the "war".

Indeed. This is how it should be done.

ppltd · 06-04-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari K

IMO, give me 850$ HD-player & one format anyday over 250$ HD DVD + 600$ PS3. Sure, the HD-players are not that expensive and e.g. PS3 has "everything", but the fact remains; You have to buy two players and spend that (approx) 850$ to enjoy ALL HD-releases..

If I am understanding you correctly, your fix should be to by one dual format player at 800.00 and be done with it. If I am misreading you, my apologies.

Austan · 06-04-2007, 04:55 PM

Take a look at Bill's arguments...

Quote:

Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

Meanwhile, Blu-ray is just as good technically and quality-wise, it has the support of EVERY HOLLYWOOD STUDIO BUT UNIVERSAL, it has the support of the MAJORITY OF HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS, and nearly the ENTIRE computer industry.

But in the last couple of weeks, the company has been slashing prices dramatically and offering $100 rebates, effectively bringing the cost of the HD-A2 to $299... Hell, we wouldn't be surprised to see Toshiba slash down to $199 or even less by the holidays at this rate.What other major HD-DVD manufacturer wants to compete with that?

Let's look at the studio support side. HD-DVD has just one major exclusive studio supporter: Universal. Blu-ray has FIVE: Disney, Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and Sony.

from there he formed his conclusion:

Quote:

And all of that experience tells us this: HD-DVD is not going to win this format war. In fact, one of two things is possible right now: Either Blu-ray will win, or neither format will win. But the best HD-DVD can hope for is to just keep hanging in the game as long as possible....

We simply CANNOT and WILL NOT recommend to our readers that they adopt a format that only has the full support of just a HANDFUL of major hardware manufacturers and ONLY A HANDFUL of the Hollywood studios - no matter how cheap the price - when a format of EQUAL quality and FAR GREATER studio and manufacturer support exists.

Sounds like a reasonable conclusion to me... Can you find any discrepancies with the numbers?

ppltd · 06-04-2007, 05:19 PM

Lets take a look at the numbers, with all facts, not just the one Bill connivently uses.

Quote:

Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin, DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players than Blu-ray Disc.

Stating that sales are x % vrs. x % is meaningless without looking at all substantiating reasons that it is this way. Lack of releases on the HD sided for the first 3.5 months of the year is totally disregarded by Bill.

Stating that HD DVD has sold more players and ignoring the 3.3 million BD players in PS3's is another example of selective fact use.

Quote:

it has the support of the MAJORITY OF HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS, and nearly the ENTIRE computer industry

The majority of hardware manufacturers? WHile BD has more manufacturer support than HD, the majority of manufacturers have decided to wait it out, with only a very few select manufacturers in the play. As far as computer manufactures, his statement is just wrong. Computer support is pretty equal across the board, with many computer manufacturers sitting on the sideline, or offering both formats.

Quote:

Let's look at the studio support side. HD-DVD has just one major exclusive studio supporter: Universal. Blu-ray has FIVE: Disney, Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and Sony.

Absolutey, BD has more support (in writting) than HD. But let's look at the statement. To include Lionsgate on the BD side and ignore Weinstein on the HD side looks to be purposly exaggerating his point. And as far as releases, there has been little out of Fox.

Quote:

But in the last couple of weeks, the company has been slashing prices dramatically and offering $100 rebates, effectively bringing the cost of the HD-A2 to $299... Hell, we wouldn't be surprised to see Toshiba slash down to $199 or even less by the holidays at this rate.What other major HD-DVD manufacturer wants to compete with that?

By discounting the fact of Sony's subsidies of the PS3 and the 50% price reductions on the new Sony and Panasonic (and to a lesser extent, Pioneer) and slamming Toshiba makes the point he has attempted to make next to meaningless.

As far as the comment about what other manufacturers would want to enter the fray at those prices, the same could be said of the BD camp when the PS3 undercut the other players by at least 400 to 800 dollars.

The remainder of your quote from Bill are nothing less than speculation, and if based on the remainder of the post, highly inacurate speculation.

Vader · 06-04-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

DESPITE the fact that HD-DVD claims to have sold many more actual stand-alone players

If you count the PS3, whose primary function and appeal will be to gamers, that is true. But among those of us that have no interest in a gaming system but prefer a stand alone player, HD-DVD has a clear advantage. Bill's neglecting to mention this little tidbit is worthy of the "Steve Sandsweet award for spinning the facts to one's own advantage"...

Jason Harbaugh · 06-04-2007, 05:31 PM

What has me worried about keeping both formats alive is retail space. It is one thing to have both formats available now since neither format has a big enough footprint softwarewise, but what happens down the line? Say both formats coexit, no winner amounts. Let's assume two things can happen with the Studios, either everyone stays where they are, or every Studio goes neutral (even Sony for this example). That means that retailers need to use valuable shelf space for both formats which could end up with thousands of titles each. Worse case scenario is if all Studios go neutral and they must put up 2 of each movie. Retailers aren't going to put up with that. They are barely putting up with it as it is, with just ~200 titles each. The retailers will most likely either favor one format, stock few titles, or ignore them both. We must remember that DVD isn't going away anytime soon so that is one format already. So with BD and HD, that is number 2 and 3, and they do the exact same thing.

I don't think it is too farfetched to believe that both formats are on thin ice with retailers as it is, especially with sales being as dismal as they are, and growth has been pretty much stagnant. (looking at software sales)

This holiday season will probably be the make or break moment for HDM.

Best case scenario, one format clearly dominates in sales making it clear that the consumer has picked a format. This format gains support from every Studio and we can now be confident that every film coming out on HDM will be able to play on that format.

Worst case scenario, both formats remain mostly ignored by the masses and retailers. Studios start dropping future releases, both formats grasp for air and we don't get our favorite movies on BD or HD. Bring on the next format please.

Second worst case scenario, both formats see moderate growth. For supporters on eitherside, it may appear to be a good thing, but that is still short term thinking. Looking at the longterm, you will run into the retailer problem I posted above.

Of course, I could be way off base here, but I don't recall any Retailers jumping for joy at the thought of having two formats, even if they are putting up with it for now.

pardon my rambling, I typed inbetween a bunch of calls.

ppltd · 06-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Harbaugh

Best case scenario, one format clearly dominates in sales making it clear that the consumer has picked a format. This format gains support from every Studio and we can now be confident that every film coming out on HDM will be able to play on that format.

Worst case scenario, both formats remain mostly ignored by the masses and retailers. Studios start dropping future releases, both formats grasp for air and we don't get our favorite movies on BD or HD. Bring on the next format please.

Second worst case scenario, both formats see moderate growth. For supporters on eitherside, it may appear to be a good thing, but that is still short term thinking. Looking at the longterm, you will run into the retailer problem I posted above.

Or a third case: While HD and BD are rolling on the mats and were arguing in the forums, VMD slips in through the back door and wins the heart of average buyers.