The Digital Bits - "Officially Blu-ray" Soapbox - Page 6

todd s · 06-03-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

I must say it is sad that a good site has gone bad. You would think that The Digital Bits would be a neutral site that provides its audience with the pros and cons of both formats which therefore treats both equally, especially considering the site is supposed to be about optical media. The siding with Blu-Ray will only alienate half of The Digital Bits visitors and shine bad press to their site. I used to be a long time visitor to the site, loved it back in the early days of DVD, appreciate all the information Bill Hunt has provided, but with the site being one sided I will no longer bother with The Digital Bits. I guess it's hard to find good, neutral websites these days.

Why should he stay nuetral? If he honestly feels his opinion is right then he should be explaining it. If he thought Star Wars stinks. Should he he keep his review quiet as to not alienate fans of his site who are Star Wars fans? I am not saying you have to agree with him. But, his site has done a lot of good over the past 10 years and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. And its sad to hear some of the real nasty things being said.

Again. I have no bone in this fight. I am waiting for all of this to sort itself out.

Luis Cruz · 06-03-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd s

Why should he stay nuetral? If he honestly feels his opinion is right then he should be explaining it. If he thought Star Wars stinks. Should he he keep his review quiet as to not alienate fans of his site who are Star Wars fans? I am not saying you have to agree with him. But, his site has done a lot of good over the past 10 years and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. And its sad to hear some of the real nasty things being said.

Again. I have no bone in this fight. I am waiting for all of this to sort itself out.

Well, the reason The Bits should stay neutral is for the fact that it is called The Digital Bits, it's not the Blu-ray Bits or the DVD bits or the HD-DVD bits. It is a site that is mostly targeted toward optical media. Now, there is a difference here between Divx and HD-DVD and that is how rediculous Divx was. The whole idea was absurd. With HD-DVD, you have a quality product that is on par, if not better, than Blu-ray. Therefore, both should be covered with a neutral stance as both are quality products that give users high definition material. Another reason to be neutral is the fact that The Bits has visitors who are on both sides, why alienate one side just to push your personal bias?

Well, Bill Hunt is entitled to his opinion and it is his site and if he wants to use it to push Blu-ray then so be it, but there are many people who will no longer frequent The Bits because of this, me included.

Nick Graham · 06-03-2007, 03:19 PM

This whole concept of "if you don't support one format and abstain from the other, you are causing the death of HD Optical!" really irks me. Ron could probably vouch for this, but I don't really think any reps from any of the studios have started thinking "You know what, screw this whole optical HD thing, too much hassle due to the format war".

People cite the DVD-A vs SACD war to try and stir fear in non-neutral folks, but I don't recall any of the content providers in that war showing 1/100th of the enthusiasm for those formats, plus there's the fact that convincing the average consumer that they needed to upgrade from CD was a much harder sell than convincing them to upgrade from standard def to HD. HDTVs have pretty good market penetration right now, and the difference on them between SD and HD is quite noticeable. Sound systems (for both home and car) that can truly show off the benefits of SACD/DVD-A over standard CD still aren't owned by most consumers. Saying HD Optical dies because of this format war is like saying that PC hardware manufacturers would have just thrown in the towel on DVD burners due to the dueling +R and -R formats. Too much money has been invested, and there is to much money to be made for HD Optical just to die. Compromises will be made and then money will be made.

I also think Ron hits another great point - this format war is a great way for the studios and CE manufacturers to throw out a smokescreen. We get so focussed on fighting each other that we don't focus that anger on the studios and manufacturers that caused this format war.

Shawn Perron · 06-03-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

They are doing their audience a disservice by not presenting unbiased information. That is journalism. You cannot pick a side when presenting facts.

Again, Bill's "news" column is entitled "MY TWO CENTS". He has never made any pretense of being unbiased since the column is as much his personal opinions as it is actual news content. All these calls for "unbiased journalism" from a site that has been delivering his personal views for so many years are just silly. To be truthful, the bits is mostly just Bill's blog with a few contributers and DVD cover scans. He's always spoken up for the things he believes are true, but for some reason he's supposed to keep his mouth shut this one time because you disagree with him? If he came out tomorrow declaring Coke was better then Pepsi, would you guys be so up in arms? It's only because people are so emotionally involved in this format war that it's even an issue. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's ok to disagree with him without taking him to task for having an opinion different then your own. I have never seen people this emotionally involved in an issue outside of politics.

Maybe in a few year we'll look back and realize that the self destruction of the home theater community was actually mirroring the self destruction of the very future of HD media on disc. 2 camps, 2 formats and no way for both to peacefully coexist? It's been looking like this for quite some time now.

TravisR · 06-03-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Perron

Again, Bill's "news" column is entitled "MY TWO CENTS". He has never made any pretense of being unbiased since the column is as much his personal opinions as it is actual news content. All these calls for "unbiased journalism" from a site that has been delivering his personal views for so many years are just silly. To be truthful, the bits is mostly just Bill's blog with a few contributers and DVD cover scans. He's always spoken up for the things he believes are true, but for some reason he's supposed to keep his mouth shut this one time because you disagree with him?

Exactly. The Digital Bits is not the real news. Bill Hunt is not a journalist (at least in the sense that he's reporting on an election or a war) and there's no reason that he should be expetced to present things in an unbiased way.

ReggieW · 06-03-2007, 03:35 PM

Frankly,

I don't see a problem with disagreeing with Bill Hunt's rant.

Also, where are these posts his supporters keep claiming are disparaging is character? This thread is five pages long now and there were maybe one or two which were like this?

Please stop pretending that this is the norm in this thread and we are out to "Kill Bill." It has been pretty civil. If it wasn't, Ron & Crawdaddy would've closed the thread by now.

That being said......

The problem that Bill's supporters have with those questioning his rant is one of plain and simple disagreement. This is Bill's OPINION it is not a FACT that this or that format will prosper/die. With Bill coming out to take such an extreme position, does he really expect HD-DVD supporters or supporters of both formats to flock to his site for objective information? For example, why does Bill believe the propaganda spinsters from Sony & Disney, but deride those from Universal and Toshiba? Haven't all sides in this war been guilty of spinning sales figures and obfuscation? If "The Bits" was your sole source, you certainly wouldn't come away with this impression.

There is something also being missed here:

Members are being harder on Bill Hunt than Harry at ACIN because we simply HOLD BILL TO A HIGHER STANDARD. Plain and simple. I certainly have in the past. One thing I do respect about Bill, is that he does not depend on the ridiculous bickering I often see over bandwidth, codecs, lossless audio, etc, and clearly states that BOTH formats look and sound great and are pretty much awash in these areas. His decision to support BD is based on his view of studio & CE manufacturer support. I disagree in that I feel that consumers, NOT the studios will determine the outcome of this war.

I was in Best Buy and Fry's last week in Burbank, and both formats roughly had the same amount of titles on display with roughly the same space. BD's superior studio support certainly hasn't brought many more quality titles (yes, this is a matter of taste), and this is what the consumer will see while shopping. They will also see the $599 PS3 and the $299 Toshiba A2 at Best Buy/Costco/etc NOW. Cost pairity in the next 12-24 months with BD is something people on these forums agonize over, NOT the general consumer who wants to enjoy HD with that new plasma they just bought. Bill Hunt considers this a negative, but consumers appear to disagree, and now appear be buying A2's in larger numbers because of PRICE. I'll say it for the last time......

Price will determine the outcome of this war, not studio or CE manufacturer support. Once the prices of these formats have reached a mass market level, then everything else will begin to fall in place.

todd s · 06-03-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Well, the reason The Bits should stay neutral is for the fact that it is called The Digital Bits, it's not the Blu-ray Bits or the DVD bits or the HD-DVD bits. It is a site that is mostly targeted toward optical media. Now, there is a difference here between Divx and HD-DVD and that is how rediculous Divx was. The whole idea was absurd. With HD-DVD, you have a quality product that is on par, if not better, than Blu-ray. Therefore, both should be covered with a neutral stance as both are quality products that give users high definition material. Another reason to be neutral is the fact that The Bits has visitors who are on both sides, why alienate one side just to push your personal bias?

Your reasoning doesn't make too much sense. While I think Divx was horrible. It wasn't inferior technology. It was just a possible rental model that used the same technology but with timed restraints on the viewing of the disc. Again, a stupid idea...But, not inferior.

Quote:

Well, Bill Hunt is entitled to his opinion and it is his site and if he wants to use it to push Blu-ray then so be it, but there are many people who will no longer frequent The Bits because of this, me included.

So you disagree with one thing he says and you throw away over 10 years of good things he has done and written about? I disagree with some of the political commentary on Boston Legal. But, I still watch and enjoy it for the other stuff on the show that I like. His site still provides lots of info and reviews. And he is not saying if your an HD-DVD fan you can't come to his site.
So disagree with him...Maybe, he will be wrong. But, to say because he took a stand on one thing you disagree with. You will never go to his site just seems petty.

Joseph Bolus · 06-03-2007, 04:10 PM

As somebody who is partial to HD-DVD, but hopeful that an optical disc format will eventually become mainstream, I can certainly understand where Bill Hunt is coming from.

His "rant" can basically be boiled down to six main points:
1. The format war is bad for the adoption of a mainstream HD optical disc format.
2. Only one studio is currently not releasing titles to the Blu-ray format. Should Universal go "format neutral" then the Blu-ray format will have 100% domestic studio coverage.
3. The reverse is not likely to ever happen. That is, it's very unlikely that Sony, MGM, Fox, and Disney *all* go "format neutral" at some point in the near future.
4. When it comes to hardware manufacturers, Sony currently has a tremendous advantage with exclusive support from Pioneer and Panasonic.
5. The PS3, even with a failed launch as a gaming machine, has still provided decent market penetration and traction for Blu-ray.
6. Ergo, in light of the above points, his recommendation for somebody entering the format war right now is to select Blu-ray. And the quicker that Blu-ray can be perceived as the winner in the war, the better chance that a HD optical format can gain enough mainstream acceptance to fight the "HD download wars". (Probably coming in 18 months to a 16:9 monitor near you.)

So Mr. Hunt is *definitely* thinking of the HT community as a whole with his "rant". He *didn't* state that HD-DVD doesn't deliver the "goods". We all know that it does. And it does it cheaper than anything currently available in the "Blu" camp. The problem is, it just has too many cards stacked against it to be able to win the war. And if the war ends in a stalemate, we all lose!!

Just speaking for myself, I know that when (or if) Disney starts releasing titles like Beauty and the Beast and The Little Mermaid to Blu-ray exclusively, I'll have to fold. I'm hoping that "combo" players will be into "second gen" by that time, but you never know ...

MatthewA · 06-03-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Glover

Great post Ron. And the real format war is Mac & PC's.

That's not war, that's detente!

Anyway there are a whole lot of lousy movies being released these days (yes, yes, I know, there are some good ones, but they seem to be the exception not the rule), and box office revenues are down. Man cannot live on Pirates alone. Considering that new releases are where the big short-term gains are, has anyone brought up that possibility yet? The Benchwarmers in 1080p is like Dogs Playing Poker in a frame meant for the Mona Lisa.

And I would like to thank Ron Epstein for bringing rationality and a sense of balance to this drawn out series of non sequitur statements posing as a format war. This isn't a war, this is a hissy fit. And in the end what has the "loser" lost?

And this is coming from someone who just bought a PS3.

Nick Graham · 06-03-2007, 04:59 PM

BTW, while I am discouraged by any site that doesn't lean more towards HTF's philosophy on this matter, Bill Hunt and The Bits have done more good for DVD in general than most anybody on this forum, myself included. He's entitled to his opinion just as much as anybody else. I don't like it when anybody takes the "HD Optical is dying because of this format war!" bait, but Bill is good people, and anybody boycotting his site isn't really doing anyone but themselves a disservice.