Disney, Lions Gate and Fox to HD DVD? Also MGM See Post #94 - Page 2

Lew Crippen · 05-30-2006, 07:56 PM

Thanks David, I always try to be polite and factual (not that I always achieve those goals). I tend to save my caustic or humorous remarks for those with who I have had a reasonable amount of interaction on this forum (I’ll take far more liberties with you than someone who just joined).

John, the point for me, is that it is pretty redundant to tell the studios how many units and disks have been sold. Even assuming the numbers are accurate, why would one think it correct to point out to commercially interested parties the numbers? Although I don’t really know the movie business, I am quite certain that they pay independent firms big bucks to provide the real numbers.

Rob_HD · 05-31-2006, 04:07 AM

I think the petition seeks to draw some potential problems to the attention of the studios that they may not have known of.

The studios can't be expected to automatically be aware of any of the technical production problems that Bluray "may" be having. Bringing them to theuir attention, along with the context in which someone mentioned them (via the links) allows the studios to investigate the problems themselves.

You may feel that it is enough just to say "HD DVD is great, so you should support it." But the author may have felt that the studios have already made their minds up based on that and that the harsh reality that all "may" not be well in BD-Land may be just the thing to encourage them to re-assess their positions.

I think it's clear that this is the angle of attack that the petition is taking. It also seems to be pretty clear about what is "rumours" or "posts", with links, versus what is fact, or inferred from user polls.

I think that this is exactly the part that has made some Bluray supporters react so badly, because it may do the most damage to the previous studio decisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

Rob_HD,

honestly, Lew has been kind. Had the petition been a straightforward:

"We the under-signed support the HD DVD format due to its relatively low cost compared to blu-ray, excellent image and sound quality, and availability today. We therefore do not plan to embrace the Blu-ray format and request that Lion's Gate release titles on the HD DVD format"

It would have been a legitimate and respectable request.

As it stands, virtually every point positioned to leverage the studio's support for HD DVD is only a half-truth, insulting to the studio's intelligence, based on mere hear-say, or a complete red-herring that has NOTHING to do with the HD DVD format (and might even apply to supporting Blu-ray as well...such as points about the players providing 24/96 upsampling or upscaling standard-def DVDs).

This is so plainly obvious. If you're having difficulty seeing the truth about how this petition really looks to an objective viewer, spend some more time reading Lew's comments and maybe even take the discussion off the board to avoid further embarrassment (for the mystery author of the petition, that is).

Lew Crippen · 05-31-2006, 08:35 AM

Well Rob, clearly we have different views on what is effective, Your use of the word attack, for example is an indication that you view the petition as a means to force a position on the studios, rather than trying to persuade them to a more inclusive (both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) position.

Why anyone would believe that the studios would not be aware of potential problems with Blu-Ray is frankly incredulous. Since these problems are known to, speculated about, and discussed among a reasonable number people with no financial interest in the outcome of either format and with no financial interest in the sales of high definition disks (and the attendant development and production costs in either format), it stands to reason that the studios (who have a lot riding on the outcome of each format) know very much more than the casual (or fanatic) consumer.

A basic fact of business life, is that companies who are partners (or dependent on each other’s success) keep each other informed of their progress and problems (insofar as the partnership is concerned). If they don’t, the partnership dissolves.

As I wrote in my prior post, it is arrogant to assume that an outsider knows more than those who have a vested interest in the outcome of the format’s development.

I note that you state that it is pretty clear what is fact and what is rumor in the petition. Assuming for the sake of argument that your view is correct, here is a direct question: ”why put rumors in a petition? It seems counter-productive to me.

I have read your last point several times, and I really don’t understand your point. I, at least am not a Blu-Ray supporter, having neither seen nor heard any of the new formats, and have not reacted badly. I have no idea what is meant by “…do the most damage to the previous studio decisions.”

Could you reword or explain that last paragraph.

Rob_HD · 05-31-2006, 09:19 AM

You clearly do feel very strongly about this so I suppose we could continue to chat it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lew Crippen

Well Rob, clearly we have different views on what is effective, Your use of the word attack, for example is an indication that you view the petition as a means to force a position on the studios, rather than trying to persuade them to a more inclusive (both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) position.

The context of the word attack was not an attack on the studios, but clearly an attack on the "exclusivity" enjoyed by the Bluray format with those studios.

Quote:

Why anyone would believe that the studios would not be aware of potential problems with Blu-Ray is frankly incredulous. Since these problems are known to, speculated about, and discussed among a reasonable number people with no financial interest in the outcome of either format and with no financial interest in the sales of high definition disks (and the attendant development and production costs in either format), it stands to reason that the studios (who have a lot riding on the outcome of each format) know very much more than the casual (or fanatic) consumer.

Studio execs who deal with movies are not guaranteed to be engineers in touch with these issues. It merely draws some of the scuttlebutt to their attention for further investigation.

Quote:

A basic fact of business life, is that companies who are partners (or dependent on each other’s success) keep each other informed of their progress and problems (insofar as the partnership is concerned). If they don’t, the partnership dissolves.

You are making an assumption in thinking that the studio folks will be told everything.

Quote:

As I wrote in my prior post, it is arrogant to assume that an outsider knows more than those who have a vested interest in the outcome of the format’s development.

Arrogance shows itself in many ways.

Quote:

I note that you state that it is pretty clear what is fact and what is rumor in the petition. Assuming for the sake of argument that your view is correct, here is a direct question: ”why put rumors in a petition? It seems counter-productive to me.

Where there is smoke, there is often fire. Again, the studios have the option of investigating the reports. I think that is what the writer has tried to start.

Quote:

I have read your last point several times, and I really don’t understand your point. I, at least am not a Blu-Ray supporter, having neither seen nor heard any of the new formats, and have not reacted badly. I have no idea what is meant by “…do the most damage to the previous studio decisions.”

Could you reword or explain that last paragraph.

I simply said that Bluray supporters have been upset by this activity - I did not call your name. Perhaps you have chosen to wear the shoe?

DaViD Boulet · 05-31-2006, 09:39 AM

Where there is smoke, there is often fire?

90% of the "smoke" quoted in the petition is mere rubbish *invented* and perpetuated by HD DVD fanboys at AVS who have no regard for genuine information gathering. In some cases, the petition is using babble translations of articles that *themselves* were merely quoting hear-say rumor... and this is the "smoke" indicative of a fire??? Some HD DVD nut at AVS saying "I heard that BD won't have dual layer ready for a year" is not "smoke" signalling a problem with BD... it's smoke signaling a problem with the pro-HD DVD extreemist-enthusiasts at AVS. That's the way it appears to an objective observer and that's the way it will appear to the professionals at Lions Gate.

Also, talking about upscaling and DVD playback in HD DVD players as though this is some exclusive "feature of HD DVD" isn't even germane to the topic of the HD DVD format. BD players will offer the same features... yet the petition is loaded with non-sensical items like this as well to promote favor for HD DVD. Is this supposed to impress the executives at the studio?

Lew and other non HD promoters have already made it clear. This isn't BD favorism talking... just the voice of REASON.

Quote:

Where there is smoke, there is often fire. Again, the studios have the option of investigating the reports. I think that is what the writer has tried to start.

If the petition had at least an *air* of legitimacy, then maybe the studio would bother to investigate and determine some of the facts about these issues. As it stands, that petition will only garner some hefty laughter.

Steve Tannehill · 05-31-2006, 09:45 AM

I thought that HTF was discouraging the use of terms like "fanboys"...

Oh well, no matter. I'll go back to AVS now.

- Steve

Juan C · 05-31-2006, 10:22 AM

Actually, I think what is discouraged is fanboyish posting.

Marc Colella · 05-31-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

If the petition had at least an *air* of legitimacy, then maybe the studio would bother to investigate and determine some of the facts about these issues. As it stands, that petition will only garner some hefty laughter.

I don't really understand why you even care.

People are trying to get HD-DVD support from a studio, either you want to sign the petition or you don't. We know you support Blu-Ray, so don't sign the petition. If the information in the HD-DVD petition is inaccurate, how does that affect your support for Blu-Ray?

If the petition "only garners some hefty laughter" (as you state) then ignore it or laugh along. Either way your input on the petition is irrelevant since you don't support the HD-DVD format anyways.

Mark Zimmer · 05-31-2006, 10:47 AM

Oooh, Mr. Pot, meet Ms. Kettle!

DaViD Boulet · 05-31-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

I don't really understand why you even care.

People are trying to get HD-DVD support from a studio, either you want to sign the petition or you don't. We know you support Blu-Ray, so don't sign the petition. If the information in the HD-DVD petition is inaccurate, how does that affect your support for Blu-Ray?

If the petition "only garners some hefty laughter" (as you state) then ignore it or laugh along. Either way your input on the petition is irrelevant since you don't support the HD-DVD format anyways.

I care just because there are serious HD DVD enthusiasts who do want the studios to support their preferred HD DVD format and a petition like this actually works against them.

IMO, the interests of serious enthusiasts deserve a fair shot at the prize during this "format war" and I'm all for reasonable discussions, evaluations, and conclusions based on objectively viewed data.

While on one level I don't mind the position of BD being strengthened by problematic agenda-prone petitions like this for HD DVD, It's not fair to serious supporters of HD DVD and I would rather see their interests represented fairly and constructively as the two formats struggle to proove their worth in the market place over the next year -- in the minds of consumers and studios alike.