"DNR" Feature on Panasonic Players...

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 04:48 PM

My Panny '10A has a circuit dubbed "DNR" -- Digital or Dynamic Noise Reduction -- which pops up under the onscreen VIDEO tab menu...when playing DVDs, this circuit clearly reduces some of the mosquito noise and block noise; not to a great degree, but some...but when playing Blu-rays, this circuit does not seem to matter whether it's on or off; I also read a review of a Samsung BD player in which the company themselves provided a list of the player's features, and there was a part where it mentioned "...DNR is only available with DVD playback...it does not work for Blu ray Disc or HD DVD..."

Is this true? Is this why I don't see any difference when switching between on and off on the DNR when watching Blu rays? The grain in grainy films remain, as does "dithering" and what I see as "whispy video noise" even when this is switched ON...should I just leave the DNR OFF when playing BDs if it's not making a difference?

Panevino · 07-10-2008, 06:05 PM

Anyone have any thoughts on Panasonic's DNR?

Panevino · 07-11-2008, 04:23 PM

Does anyone have any information on the Panasonic 'BD10A's "DNR" Noise Reduction feature? Last night I watched 30 Days of Night on BD, and couldn't really see the DNR eliminating any "noise" or "dirty grain" (which I guess was baked into the transfer as film grain) being eliminated when I switched it on; I left it off for the remainder of the feature...

Does DNR work for high definition playback, and should it just be turned OFF if it doesn't?

ANY insight would be greatly appreciated...

Clinton McClure · 07-11-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

I also read a review of a Samsung BD player in which the company themselves provided a list of the player's features, and there was a part where it mentioned "...DNR is only available with DVD playback...it does not work for Blu ray Disc or HD DVD..."

Looks like you might have answered your own question. If Samsung said the DNR function does not work on Bluray and you are not seeing a difference while watching Bluray material with it turned on, then the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

That being said, I'm not a fan of DNR, forced or otherwise. From my experience, it takes away from the presence of the film, much like using DSP audio modes or adding EE to a picture because it looks soft. Guess what...It's supposed to look that way. See the Patton on BD thread in the HD software section for the pros and (mostly) cons of grain removal on BD.

To answer your second question, leave the DNR feature turned off to enjoy the film the way it should be viewed.

Panevino · 07-11-2008, 10:46 PM

Thank You for Getting Back to me, Clinton, But...

Looks like you might have answered your own question. If Samsung said the DNR function does not work on Bluray and you are not seeing a difference while watching Bluray material with it turned on, then the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

I understand Samsung stated this in their descriptive specs on the Crutchfield site, but I was wondering if that was only in regards to their circuitry and implementation of the DNR feature; I just supplied that information for general information. I'm wondering if on the Panasonics, this circuit works; it's there to choose from when playing back DVDs and Blu rays on the Panasonic players, but doesn't seem to "work" when running Blu ray material...

Do you have any information or insight as to whether or not "DNR" works on high definition media?

That being said, I'm not a fan of DNR, forced or otherwise. From my experience, it takes away from the presence of the film, much like using DSP audio modes or adding EE to a picture because it looks soft. Guess what...It's supposed to look that way. See the Patton on BD thread in the HD software section for the pros and (mostly) cons of grain removal on BD.

I understand your position; but on DVDs, I can clearly see the DNR circuitry taking out random block and mosquito noise without reducing detail on this Panasonic -- it's the Blu-ray DNR issue I'm concerned with...is there any "noise" to speak of on high definition that can be "removed" with a DNR circuit?

To answer your second question, leave the DNR feature turned off to enjoy the film the way it should be viewed.

Well, as I have already stated, the DNR seems to work to my enjoyment on DVD playback -- what I was asking was, IF there is PROVEN evidence that DNR does not work with high definition, then should the switch just be left off?

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Cees Alons · 07-12-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

IF there is PROVEN evidence that DNR does not work with high definition

It depends on the algorithm used, and thus the manufacturer is the best party to tell you that.

BTW, I'm in favour of a DNR function on consumer gear. That way, they can minimize the use of DNR on the original material and leave it to the individual customer's taste to enjoy the picture as he/she likes best.

Cees

Panevino · 07-12-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cees Alons

It depends on the algorithm used, and thus the manufacturer is the best party to tell you that.

BTW, I'm in favour of a DNR function on consumer gear. That way, they can minimize the use of DNR on the original material and leave it to the individual customer's taste to enjoy the picture as he/she likes best.

Cees

Cees,

Thanks very much for your thoughts, but I'm still a bit confused!

So if Samsung is saying DNR doesn't work on Blu ray and HD DVD, does that mean it MAY work on Panasonic players?

Cees Alons · 07-12-2008, 07:07 PM

Yes, Santino. Unless Samsung is the manufacturer of the Panasonic machines, of course.

There's no technical reason why a DNR function couldn't be made to work on 1920x1080 images. Of course, the chip must be fast enough, and the algorithm must do it. Whether or not a specific TV set or receiver or player can perform the function, depends on the design choices made by the manufacturer.

Other questions are "how acceptable is the result", "what are the costs", etc. But those questions are of a different order.

Cees

Panevino · 07-12-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cees Alons

Yes, Santino. Unless Samsung is the manufacturer of the Panasonic machines, of course.

There's no technical reason why a DNR function couldn't be made to work on 1920x1080 images. Of course, the chip must be fast enough, and the algorithm must do it. Whether or not a specific TV set or receiver or player can perform the function, depends on the design choices made by the manufacturer.

Other questions are "how acceptable is the result", "what are the costs", etc. But those questions are of a different order.

Cees

Wow; this is all news to me! I've been hearing that noise reduction doesn't really work or need to be implemented on HD sources -- it doesn't seem like the Panasonic chip, as you put it, is acting "fast enough" or whatever it is because I don't see a difference when switching it on and off.

The thing is, Samsung was making it sound as if their word was the last word on the issue -- in other words, they claimed "DNR DOES NOT WORK ON BLU RAY DISC AND HD DVD..." and it seemed like that went beyond just their own equipment...

Lew Crippen · 07-12-2008, 07:32 PM

You have reason to be confused—but RTFM and also RCAC.

The BD10 online manual I found does not mention DNR not working with BD. However from the BD30 manual:

Quote:

3D NR … When BD-Video 24p Output is set to “On”, this function may not work.

From Cees’ reply:

Quote:

…thus the manufacturer is the best party to tell you that.

In this case RTFM should be taken to mean to contact Panasonic.

Personally I think that there is ‘proven evidence’ that DNR reduces the picture from what was intended by the filmmakers, so I leave it off. Your experience indicates otherwise, so I’d say that even proven evidence might be at variance with your experience. Just turn in on and see if you are happy with the result—or if you think that there is no difference one way or the other.

As an aside, although I’m not a fan of DNR, Cess has given me new insight and I can now favor DNR on consumer products as a possible means to reduce DNR implementation the studios and other BD makers (this is not to mean that I am not in favor of selective removal of dirt and scratches from the source).

Panevino · 07-12-2008, 07:53 PM

The BD10 online manual I found does not mention DNR not working with BD. However from the BD30 manual:

Thanks so much for your insight, Lew...

Yes, my '10A manual doesn't say anything about DNR working or not working for either Blu ray or DVD; I see with my own eyes that it reduces mosquito noise with DVD, so I leave it on...the thing is, with the clip you provided from the BD30 manual, that 3-D Noise Reduction is different than what I am referring to -- the 3-D Noise Reduction is a feature that opens up if you use the USER settings to adjust picture quality upon playback of any disc -- I leave all my playback at NORMAL on my Panasonic, and then the only noise reduction option open to me is "DNR" -- there's just still no way of knowing if this circuit works on removing noise from high definition discs...

From Cees’ reply: In this case RTFM should be taken to mean to contact Panasonic.

I may need to contact Panasonic based on Cees' and your reply...

Personally I think that there is ‘proven evidence’ that DNR reduces the picture from what was intended by the filmmakers, so I leave it off. Your experience indicates otherwise, so I’d say that even proven evidence might be at variance with your experience. Just turn in on and see if you are happy with the result—or if you think that there is no difference one way or the other.

On DVD playback, as I have said, there is noticeable reduction of mosquito or "block" noise so I run DVDs with the DNR ON...but with Blu rays, I don't see any difference between on and off; the thing is there are just so many Blu rays in my collection that could benefit from a circuit like this -- noisy, "staticky" transfers...I wish the circuit would work, but from my naked eye, it doesn't look like it is...