Given the Following Criteria...Can Someone Recommend a BD Player? - Page 2

Carlo Medina · 07-09-2008, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

What's the whole hoopla surrounding "2.0 profile"? Does this just access more interactive features on the discs? If so, I'm not really interested in any of that; my only criteria are for bitstreaming of the TrueHD/Master Audio codecs and good DVD upscaling...

Are there still no current choices?

2.0 does allow access to online content, but that's not what I think makes it really valuable.

What does is the required 1GB of onboard RAM, as well as the requirement of having an ethernet connection (though it will work fine if you don't have internet access).

What this tells me is that these machines will be easy to update, firmware-wise. So as the BD content gets more advanced, the 2.0 hardware should (in theory, given of course good support from the manufacturer) be able to handle whatever is thrown at it with a simple firmware upgrade.

Think of all the horror stories right now of early 1.0 players taking minutes to load BD-J enabled discs, whereas my PS3, thanks to the power of the RAM, CPU and firmware updates, takes seconds.

Even Sony's first BD players (which my ex-landlord has) takes 60 seconds or so to spin up certain titles, even after I downloaded and burned a disc for him with newer firmware [it was more like 90 seconds with the firmware that shipped with the device]. He came over and absolutely was floored when my PS3 spun up the disc in 5 seconds.

A 2.0 device should in theory allow you to skip the step of going to a PC, going to the manufacturer's site, downloading firmware, burning a disc, and then using the disc to update the machine. It should be able to DL the firmware through the ethernet connection and update the firmware in one simple stroke.

In theory.

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 08:23 PM

Nobody was "attacking" you

I addressed why I felt everyone was "getting on me" about the PS3; I just wanted everyone to move past that criteria decision I made...

merely pointing out that others came to the same realisation as this thread has: there's nothing out there that does an appreciably better job at playing BD.

...but just a post or two above, someone does feel that BD players can exhibit "better" performance than others...

Now, if you throw DVD upscaling and bitstreaming in there, you've made your choice ~ zero that are *guaranteed* excellent. The promise of newer and better BD players, regardless of price, has still not changed the bottom line much, which is BD playing ability.

I don't think bitstreaming of the new codecs is a difficult element to come by right now -- aside from Panasonic's BD30/50, aren't there ANY other decks that bitstream TrueHD and Master Audio outside of Samsung? Let's just go with AVERAGE upscaling on DVDs for now...

You want what we all want.

Some don't WANT good upscaling performance from these players because they're buying them for high definition playback solely; as I said, let's reduce the choices down to decks that at least upconvert BETTER than my 10A...that is: little to no jagged edges or macroblocking, pixelation, etc...

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBat

I have always been impressed with the PQ on either the ps3 and the panasonic 30. more so then the oppo or regular standard dvd players. specially for the upconversion. you are using HDMI instead of conponets.
I had a tv which I would see some bad images or so.. so I got another tv.. had some problem.. but I did have to calibrate the tv a bit. then it worked better.. however some dvds still have problems and might have image problems.
it seems that you are a bit picky about what you like and all.. which is fine.. you might not be ever happy with it.. but some players are better then others and some are worse.

with that in mind.. you never said what your set up is like tv or home theatre? or size of the tv?
I will say that the panasonic 30 is very impressive with the true HD and DTS MA and stuff.. you would be happy with that. bitstreaming I mean.. the BDlive is a bunch of overrated crap if you ask me.

Jacob

Jacob,

You have to understand one thing: I know everyone's instinct is to jump and think I am expecting too much from DVD upconversion -- I've had this discussion exhaustively with others already...that's not the case. I don't expect DVDs to look like high definition suddenly because it's running in an "upconverting" Blu ray/DVD player, as most of the average public has been duped into thinking...I know the discs will never look like that. My point is that these Panasonic Blu ray players are notorious for having awful DVD upscaling -- and it's these "problems" the PLAYER introduces like macroblocking, smearing, jaggies that are plaguing my image, not the expectation that DVD should suddenly look like high def. I'm surprised that you found the opposite with your Panasonic...

I'm not into the "Live" stuff, so I don't care about that "crap" either; to answer your questions, my screen is 50" (a Sony KDS-50A2020 SXRD rear projection model) and I sit six or so feet from the screen; an Onkyo TX-SR605 receiver powers the system and feeds the video to the Sony from one HDMI cable looping from the Panasonic player...

TheBat · 07-09-2008, 08:42 PM

no problem.

I use an HDMI switcher box.. because I had more stuff then the two HDMI hook ups on my onkyo 605.. then I could hook up more things. the onkyo 605 does have a black on black problem. my HDMI switcher does a better job with the picture image. you might want to try that? i got a cheap one for 50 bucks off that online site that everyone talks about.
you might be sitting to close to the screen.. might want to try 9 or 10 feet or so.
I have a 47 samsung rear projection. I do agree that the samsung dvd players are terrible.

Jacob

Panevino · 07-09-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBat

no problem.

I use an HDMI switcher box.. because I had more stuff then the two HDMI hook ups on my onkyo 605.. then I could hook up more things. the onkyo 605 does have a black on black problem. my HDMI switcher does a better job with the picture image. you might want to try that? i got a cheap one for 50 bucks off that online site that everyone talks about.
you might be sitting to close to the screen.. might want to try 9 or 10 feet or so.
I have a 47 samsung rear projection. I do agree that the samsung dvd players are terrible.

Jacob

Thank you for understanding...

Yes, I've been told my sitting position and distance may be the issue...unfortunately, in our current apartment, I can't move back any further...hopefully, when we get our next place, we will have the "proper" seating distance so maybe I don't see all the artifacts!

When you refer to the Samsung "players," do you mean their Blu ray players or DVD players, or both?

That's specifically why I wanted to stay away from Samsung for my next BD deck, no matter how many updates they have given these things...

John Wielgosz · 07-10-2008, 01:02 AM

Panevino,

May I inquire as to which DVD titles you're having excessive problems with? I may have some of the same titles in question and give them a run through with my three available upscalers (PS3, HD-A3, BD-10a (yeah, I still have it on the premises)).

Also, maybe you should also look into a SD-DVD player with the Realta chipset. These can be on the expensive side, and I'm not actually sure if anyone makes a SD-DVD only player like this anymore...

Jari K · 07-10-2008, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

I also considered the $1000 Denon or the $2000 Denon flagship -- but the $1000 model was reviewed by Home Theater and it got a very poor rating for DVD upconversion so that seemed like a waste of money. The $2000 deck is really outside of my budget but I would consider trying to pay that thing off IF the DVD upconversion was really spectacular as its Reon specs suggest and if the Blu ray performance was more "off the hook" compared to my Panny...

This is my personal opinion (and I haven´t use Denon-models), but don´t pay this kind of money for a Blu-ray-player. They can´t offer anything THAT special for their price ($1000-$2000). $500-600 should be a "max" at this point in the game (after all, full "profile 2.0" players are generally just arriving when it comes to stand-alone models).

Of course, eventually it´s your money, but don´t fell for the "high-end model"-hype. This same thing happened back in the days with SD DVD-players. With $1000 you got "super upscaling" etc, but later on we got e.g. Oppo, that had similar upscaling etc for 1/3 of that $1000 price.

Seriously, there´s nothing that can justify that $1000-$2000 price (DVD/BD-players). You can get quality A/V receiver for $1000 (give or take) now, which can then do the "upscaling" (quality one, I might add).

I know that you don´t like PS3 (your choice, of course), but people are just trying to make a point here in this thread:
*PS3 =
Profile 2.0 Blu-ray-player, excellent (to 1080p) upscaling (IMO probably slightly better than the upscaling with Toshiba, which uses Reon chip - I have compared the two), HDMI 1.3 (inc. DTS-HD MA), USB/Flash card readers/Ethernet/wireless, DVD-/+R/RW, CD-R/RW etc etc (inc. SACD, DivX), Internet (with PS3-store with games/demos/videos), 40gb/80gb hard drive, photos, MP3s, video clips, Cell microprocessor, firmware updates.. + PS3 games (using 720p/1080p). Etc. All this for, what, $500?

Only things that are missing (PS3), are the analog audio-connections (which you don´t need, if you´ve a new HDMI 1.3 A/V-receiver) and "bitstream" option for the new HD audio tracks (which is hardly the end of the world - PCM gives 100% identical audio). Some models might have some fan noise (mine does, but two of my friends doesn´t really have any real "noise"). PS3 is just a good example, what you can now get with that $500... Those "video console vs stand-alone player" days are over. PS3 is both.

So IMO, you have to seriously ask yourself: What will the $1000-model really give me, that I don´t get from the $500 (give or take)-models? Like I said, don´t fell for the "high-end"/upscaling/bitstream-hype.

Paul Kemp · 07-10-2008, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panevino

...but just a post or two above, someone does feel that BD players can exhibit "better" performance than others...

The people that make these claims are often running said player on a relatively modest HD screen and their comments often tell you more about the quality of the display than the player. The only screens truly capable of, in my opinion, exploiting the differences between HD players cost many many thousands - if you have such a screen then good luck to you.

I believe I was one of the people 'getting on at you' about the PS3, and I also believe my post has disappeared - I am reading about Soviet Russia at the moment, funnily enough.

TheBat · 07-10-2008, 12:30 PM

I think I had a samsung dvd player a while back and was not happy with it.. seem to make everything so dark. so I ended up returning it. I also heard from others about the samsung bluray pkayers having some problems.. I never had one.. people told me to go with the ps3 or the panasonic 30.
the rear projection tv has a problem if you sit so close.. I would probably suggest a LCD widescreen set. so then you don't get the odd image from the rear projection with being so close.
Jacob

Panevino · 07-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wielgosz

Panevino,

May I inquire as to which DVD titles you're having excessive problems with? I may have some of the same titles in question and give them a run through with my three available upscalers (PS3, HD-A3, BD-10a (yeah, I still have it on the premises)).

Also, maybe you should also look into a SD-DVD player with the Realta chipset. These can be on the expensive side, and I'm not actually sure if anyone makes a SD-DVD only player like this anymore...

John,

Thank you for the response. Gosh...there are so many DVD titles that have been giving me consistent problems...to be honest, there isn't ONE in my collection that isn't plagued by jagged edges, macroblocking and pixelation...artifacts that are undoubtedly coming from the scaling properties of this player.

As far as the Realta, it's funny you mention that -- I have been actually considering the Denon $2000 flagship player that has this chip, so I can kill two birds with one stone, which is bitstreaming of TrueHD and Master Audio tracks AND excellent DVD upconversion...just wondering if it will be worth the two grand and if a player like this is just "overkill" for my system...

Panevino · 07-10-2008, 05:59 PM

This is my personal opinion (and I haven´t use Denon-models), but don´t pay this kind of money for a Blu-ray-player. They can´t offer anything THAT special for their price ($1000-$2000). $500-600 should be a "max" at this point in the game (after all, full "profile 2.0" players are generally just arriving when it comes to stand-alone models).

Thank you once again for your thoughts, Jari; they're appreciated...

I totally respect your viewpoints here -- and it's actually what I wanted! The thing I questioned about about the Denon was that it contains the deinterlacing chip that MAY just give me the performance I was looking for with standard DVD upscaling...couple that with (promised) outstanding Blu ray performance and bitstreaming capabilities, and I thought it was worth the investment...

Of course, eventually it´s your money, but don´t fell for the "high-end model"-hype. This same thing happened back in the days with SD DVD-players. With $1000 you got "super upscaling" etc, but later on we got e.g. Oppo, that had similar upscaling etc for 1/3 of that $1000 price.

Right...just worried that Blu ray players will never sell at the $500 price point WHILE offering Oppo-like DVD upconversion...if they do, it may be a LONG wait...

Seriously, there´s nothing that can justify that $1000-$2000 price (DVD/BD-players). You can get quality A/V receiver for $1000 (give or take) now, which can then do the "upscaling" (quality one, I might add).

Well, with regard to this, I'm already running a satisfactory Onkyo '605 which wasn't that expensive but offered everything I needed -- onboard TrueHD and Master Audio decoding, HDMI inputs and output at 1.3a specs, etc...so I don't think I need a new receiver right now, and I always plan to bypass the receiver's "upscaling to HDMI" features and just pass the video straight through...

I know that you don´t like PS3 (you