Is the format war about to resurface? Does Toshiba have the Blu-ray killer? - Page 6

Hartwig Hanser · 06-20-2008, 03:10 AM

Nick, I totally agree with you.

Ronald Epstein · 06-20-2008, 04:55 AM

Quote:

I think if HTF is truly about the best possible presentation of film at home, they won't lend it a lot of support and credence.

This is a very fine line that is being walked here.

First, Toshiba was cooking up this technology long before
they folded HD-DVD. I first heard about this new player a
year ago.

While I agree that Blu-ray is the best medium for watching
film, I don't necessarily condone what Toshiba is offering here.
If they can make standard DVD look even slightly better than
what the best upconverted players can produce, I think most
everyone would welcome such a player -- especially for the fact
that most of us own hundreds (some thousands) of sDVD titles.

It's a fine line we are walking because I do understand the impact
this will have on the public accepting Blu-ray.

Listen, this problem is never going to go away. There will always
be new formats competing against each other as companies strive
to dominate the market. Blu-ray will have its run until something
better, smaller, faster, etc. comes to market.

It's difficult for us to fight against any emerging format we may
not necessarily agree with, that is, unless the entire community feels
it to be an atrocity (such as DIVX). In this case, opinions are split
over what Toshiba is about to release.

We, as a group here, have to stand back and watch what happens.
This player hasn't been released yet and I probably won't get to see
it for myself for another 2 months. To condemn it now would be
unfair. And what if this player makes sDVD look incredibly close to
HD quality? It would be very difficult to come back to all of you and
say, "Listen, this is bad technology and we should not support it."

Until we know more about this player we need to keep an open mind.
Furthermore, if the opinions within this forum are sharply split in favor
and against this Toshiba player, we may be forced into a position where
we have to be supportive of our membership.

I think this boils down to it being too early to make a judgement
either way. I certainly don't blame Toshiba for what they are doing.
It will only be a matter of time until other newer technology threatens
Blu-ray and we start this merry-go-round all over again.

Yumbo · 06-20-2008, 05:30 AM

Upconverting/upscaling has got to be the biggest hardware marketing con there ever was - to resell players, cables and receivers.

"Shit in = shit out"

Padding my bigger shoes with extra socks in order to fit.

Nevertheless, if Toshiba was planning this during HD DVD, does that mean it was meant to be a simultaneous format, or the backup plan given the failure of HD DVD?

I've just plunked down for a PS3 and 100 BRDs (in 2 weeks) with more to come (after an add-on and A35 and 370 HD DVDs after 1.5 years).

I'll wait and see what Toshiba 2.0 is (whenever that is).

Meanwhile, just let Apple announce their support (of BR), and it should be settled. Their new iSight will be HD in any case.

Ronald Epstein · 06-20-2008, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Their new iSight will be HD in any case

Not to derail this thread, but Apple is coming out with
a HD iSight webcam?

Ralphie_B · 06-20-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein

This is a very fine line that is being walked here.

While I agree that Blu-ray is the best medium for watching
film, I don't necessarily condone [sic?] what Toshiba is offering here.
If they can make standard DVD look even slightly better than
what the best upconverted players can produce, I think most
everyone would welcome such a player -- especially for the fact
that most of us own hundreds (some thousands) of sDVD titles.

This is what's keeping me interested in Toshiba's developments. I'm gathering HDM at a fair pace, but there are tons of titles I have on SDVD that I'm either not enthusiastic to, or not able to, double-dip on. I'd welcome any improvement possible when viewing those.

I don't see this as a serious rival to Blu-Ray... in fact, it's something I'd like to see implemented in Blu-Ray players, to replace the more traditional upconversion schemes they're currently using for SDVD (though I realize Toshiba might not be interested in licensing anything for use with Blu-Ray).

Scott-S · 06-20-2008, 09:18 AM

Shouldnt this talk about the upconverting toshiba be in the SD section?

This is the HD section. And we all agree that upconverting a SD DVD is not HD.

(I kid because I love)

Jason Seaver · 06-20-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yumbo

Nevertheless, if Toshiba was planning this during HD DVD, does that mean it was meant to be a simultaneous format, or the backup plan given the failure of HD DVD?

The upconverting technology in question probably shouldn't be looked at as a format; it's a different kind of product. It's imaging software, akin to what IMAX uses to make 35mm films look good on their large screens, NASA uses to get more detail out of the extremely tight bandwidth available to planetary probes, and what movies would have you believe the CIA and your local police department can do in terms of enhancing video.

If HD DVD had lasted longer, this likely would have gone into the successor to the HD-XA2; if Toshiba were in the DVR business, it would likely go in that. At some point it will probably go into their high-end TVs. Heck, if they start making BD players, it'll probably go in those and be applied not only to upconverting DVDs, but making the 1080p images look even better.

I strongly suspect that Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc., are all working on similar technology - who doesn't want to have the best image quality? - but Toshiba got there first and currently has more motivation to put it in DVD players (since their high-end DVD players won't be competing with their own Blu-ray players) and maybe some economic advantages in implementation (they own and manufacture the cell processors that this software will need).

Cees Alons · 06-20-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Graham

I gotta say I'm a little concerned about the enthusiasm some are expressing about this. HTF's mission statement has always been about getting the best possible representation of the original theatrical experience at home.

No need to be concerned at all.

Members want the best possible representation at home. For more than 10 years, most of them bought DVD releases, and they're obviously interested to watch them in the best possible way. Some still have LDs of certain movies, often purposely and for a good (personal) reason.

A high-end upconverting machine to output great HDTV images fits perfectly in this scheme. And of course a better one is of great interest to those film lovers.

The best way, probably, to see the same film now would be on a BD. And many members made it very clear how much they're interested in that format. Many bought into it already.

But most of the titles people own, aren't available on blu-ray or HD DVD, and furthermore, not everyone has the means to immediately re-purchase some of the material that have been made available on HD media already.

Many posters clearly stated these and other considerations in this thread (and elsewhere), so in these cases there really is no conflict at all with our mission statement.

And I'm not even referring now to the few who believe the upconverted images may almost be as good as true HD images: those are in the minority here apparently anyway.

Cees

Jerome Grate · 06-20-2008, 02:30 PM

Count me in with Ron here, can't blame Toshiba for doing what they are doing. It's clear the HD format is BD, but if a device is available that plays standard DVDs far better than the typical 480p, and better than you run of the mill or high level upscaling player, I'm willing to give it a chance. I said before, I would have to see if they can top the scaling capabilities of their now defunct HD-DVD players before stepping in to it, but for the masses, it's certainly an option for them. I don't think it will be a BD killer, but certainly an option for those who think BD is still too expensive.

Aaron Silverman · 06-20-2008, 02:37 PM

I watched the SD-DVD of Rocky Balboa upconverted by my PS3 and it looked fantastic -- not quite like a BD, but close.

I watched the SD-DVD of The Man Who Would Be King upconverted by my PS3 and it looked like garbage (freakin' great movie, though).

If this new tech can somehow make crappy DVDs look significantly better (I'm not holding my breath), then great. Otherwise, it's worthless. You can buy upconverting DVD players for $50 already.