[robert bartsch]

OK, so I bought a media PC recently on the basis that it should provide more flexibility and features than buying separate components like an external BD player, external DVD recorder, etc. for my HT system.

Are PC-based systems growing in popularity?

I thought I read enough before the PC purchase but I now learn that HD programs "broadcast" from a cable box, for example, cannot be copied in HD format to a PC. Wow, that was news to me.

How about BD disks played on an internal disk drive from the PC; can these be copied to the PC hard drive or is that restricted too?

I'm not here to violate copyright laws but I thought it would be OK to rent a BD movie, for example, and copy it for replay later so long as you did not intend to sell it to others.

If this is not the case, there is little need for a BD burner, I suppose.

[Clinton McClure]

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How about BD disks played on an internal disk drive from the PC; can these be copied to the PC hard drive or is that restricted too?

Not without 3rd party software which strips away the copy protection from the disc. Talk of such here is strictly forbidden.

From the HTF rules:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/rules.php

5. Respect for copyrights. Home Theater Forum has a strict policy of respecting the rights of copyright holders. We do not allow discussion of bootleg material or where or how to obtain it, and we immediately delete all links to sites that deal in bootleg material. If you have any doubt whether a source is legitimate, please check with a moderator before posting any links. We also do not allow discussion of (a) how to make unauthorized copies of video or audio materials, (b) how to defeat any form of copy protection (including, for example, how to make “personal” copies of commercially produced DVDs), and/or (c) how to obtain equipment that can only be used for such purposes.

[robert bartsch]

VCRs that record have been aroud for about 30 years. When they first came out the Supreme court ruled that it was not a violation of copyright laws if you made a copy of a rented movie or broadcast program and did not re-sell it to others.

The concept today is similar with DVRs that record programing from cable boxes.

How is copying a program on your DVR hard drive any differnt from copying the same program on your PC's hard drive?

I'm not attempting to break any copywright laws.

[Stephen Tu]

The Supreme Court ruling only explicitly legalized time-shifting of broadcast programs. Duplicating rented movies breaks copyright laws, haven't you seen the FBI warning plastered at the beginning of every VHS & DVD for the last several decades? It doesn't matter that you don't sell to others (that just makes it unlikely for you to get caught), the principle is you are circumventing the copyright holder's right to make money by selling you a legal copy or renting it again to you in some manner.

[robert bartsch]

...but in the case of the DVR, I've already paid the artists via my cable bill, dido for each rented movie...

So people who have made VCR copies of movies they rented for the last 30 years are violating copyright laws? Then why haven't the artists prevented electronics manufactorers from selling dulicating equipment?

I thought the artists tried this in the 1970-80's and the Supreme court ruled aginst them.

The more recent issue with people file sharing music was clearly a diffeent situation since the artists were not being paid by those who downloaded the music; right?

[JohnRice]

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We also do not allow discussion of... (b) how to defeat any form of copy protection (including, for example, how to make “personal” copies of commercially produced DVDs), and/or (c) how to obtain equipment that can only be used for such purposes.

Legal arguments are not the issue. You agreed to abide by the HTF guidelines when you joined and there they are. There is no way to do what you ask without defeating copy protection.

[Stephen Tu]

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Originally Posted by robert bartsch

...but in the case of the DVR, I've already paid the artists via my cable bill, dido for each rented movie...

You paid for the right to view an authorized copy & return it, not for the right to make an unauthorized copy to keep forever. Just because you paid the artist *something* doesn't give you the right to circumvent the price they are asking for a purchase vs. a rental. E.g. they want $20 for the legal, authorized DVD/BD for you to own, not just some fraction of the $4 rental fee. As a consumer, if you feel the price is too high for that, then your legal, proper response is to simply not buy it, not rent it & make a copy. If the market agrees with you, that the price is too high for purchase, then the disc won't sell & the price will come down, perhaps to a more palatable level for you. If not, well, just live without the disc, or simply rent it again if you wish another viewing.

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So people who have made VCR copies of movies they rented for the last 30 years are violating copyright laws?

Yes.

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Then why haven't the artists prevented electronics manufactorers from selling dulicating equipment?

The core of the court ruling was that if equipment had substantial non-copyright-infringing uses, you can't bar their sale just because some people use them to infringe.

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I thought the artists tried this in the 1970-80's and the Supreme court ruled aginst them.

If you read the ruling (google for "Betamax decision"), you'll see that they only legalized time-shifting, certainly not duplication of rentals.

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The more recent issue with people file sharing music was clearly a different situation since the artists were not being paid by those who downloaded the music; right?

No. Both giving the studio $0 (illegal download) instead of $1 (legal download) and giving the studio part of $4 (rental) instead of $20(purchase) are harming the owner of the copyright. It's akin to going into a store and altering a price tag, just because you give them *some* money doesn't mean you aren't stealing from them.

If you can't afford to buy movies, just rent! A netflix sub at $17/month is like owning nearly every major (non-porn, domestic) DVD ever made, just the retrieval system is more inefficient than having the disc at home . But it's a ton cheaper than legally buying thousands of titles ...

[Alfonso_M]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert bartsch

Then why haven't the artists prevented electronics manufactorers from selling dulicating equipment?

They have, that's why you can't copy Hi-DEF to any device this days.(At least in the US, Hi-DEF recorders are sold in Japan, but I have no idea what they can record over there)

I believe I read somewhere that early Hi-def tuner cards (forced off the market and not on sale for a while now) allowed you to record Hi-DEF – over the air -- broadcasts to a HDD because the copy guard protection software (and finalized new rules ) were not ready/implemented at the time.

This subject of copy-rights and what's fair or not for consumers to record etc etc, was a really hot controversial topic in this forums a few years back when HDCP, DVI and HDMI connectors were first introduced.

The new technology in place right now is so powerful that consumers can be prevented from even time-shifting –as the Supreme Court decided-- if the copyrights holders demand it.

You can be prevented from recording any show if they wish, or if recording is allowed, they can control how many times you can record it and in what resolution, (possibly we’ll have to pay a premium for better rez) and then tell you how many times you are allowed to watch such show in your living room within a ‘window’ of time. (Even if you paid for it)

This issue is very complicated, and maybe you should do a search of the archives here and other forums to catch up, very interesting and controversial subject, involving many sides and players.

The consensus was that most likely the Supreme Court will have to re-visit this issue sometime in the future, but this may take decades if ever, and from what I’ve been able to gather from reading this forums and assorted Publications, no one in the general public cares any longer…..