New to Blu? Buy a PS3: the most featured BD hardware available...

DaViD Boulet · 01-04-2008, 05:27 PM

and the only BD player that will be updatable (for free) to "2.0" compliance, with BD-Live (web features).

The PS3 is already firmware updated for profile 1.1 (PIP) and decodes Dolby TrueHD internally. It will be updated to decode DTS-HD MA internally as well in the next few months is not sooner (info from the Sony insider).

The only thing the PS3 won't do is stream advanced audio codecs in raw bit-stream form to an external decoder as its HDMI 1.3 chipset lacks this ability (bummer). But with the internal decoding of DTS-HD MA soon to be realized, it won't be necessary since it can extract advanced audio to PCM over HDMI.

If you just want a cheap BD player and don't care about 2.0 web features, then get the new Panny 30 which will stream advanced audio over HDMI 1.3 and is 1.1 compliant (PIP). If you want web features, the PS3 lets you get into BD now and update it later for 2.0 compliance with the spec is ready.

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Ron Reda · 01-05-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

It will be updated to decode DTS-HD MA internally as well in the next few months is not sooner (info from the Sony insider).

David,

I really hope your source/insider is reliable because this would be excellent news. I know that this has been a sore subject for a lot of PS3 owners. I personally don't care and have been enjoying my PS3 since I got it. In fact, I liked it so much that in addition to having one in the family room (our main TV), I bought one for my dedicated HT room as I just couldn't stand not being able to watch Blu-Rays on my 7.2 system. The second one is the bare bones PS3, yet I got it with a game, a Blu-Ray remote, Spiderman 3 in the box and 5 free Blu-Ray movies by mail all for $400...a great deal IMO!

DaViD Boulet · 01-05-2008, 11:39 AM

There's no doubt. DTS-HD MA decoding is on the way. "Early 2008" was stated, and January-Feb is the expected time-frame based on the larger conversation (but if it comes in March, it's still coming).

Sony's delay is likely more about letting other stand-alone BD player manufacturers get their DTS-HD MA decoding gear on the store shelves first... for bragging rights. Since the PS3 is basically the swiss-army-knife of Blu-ray Disc players, Sony sometimes intentionally lets it take a back-seat for a time to give other manufactures a chance to distinguish their products.

For instance, it was *after* the Panny 30 went for sale with profile 1.1 that Sony finally released the profile 1.1 update for the PS3.

Oh, the same source told us that was coming as well. He's been right every step of the way since the PS3 went to market.

Bleddyn Williams · 01-05-2008, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet

The PS3 is already firmware updated for profile 1.1 (PIP) and decodes Dolby TrueHD internally. It will be updated to decode DTS-HD MA internally as well in the next few months is not sooner (info from the Sony insider).

The only thing the PS3 won't do is stream advanced audio codecs in raw bit-stream form to an external decoder as its HDMI 1.3 chipset lacks this ability (bummer). But with the internal decoding of DTS-HD MA soon to be realized, it won't be necessary since it can extract advanced audio to PCM over HDMI.

David, I don't know too much about these advanced formats. I'm planning on buying an HDMI-capable receiver this year, probably an Onkyo such as the 605 which has the advanced audio capabilities already onboard.

Are you saying that with my PS3 I would have to bypass the amplifier's capabilities and rely on the PS3 to turn TrueHD & DTS MA into PCM for output?

If that's right, how would that sound as opposed to sending the unconverted signal to the amp for decoding?

Norman Matthews · 01-05-2008, 12:47 PM

I asked this in the Warner thread, but no one seems to want to offer a guess: David, if I'm looking to buy a 2.0 player for around 250 bucks, how long do you think I'll be waiting?

DaViD Boulet · 01-05-2008, 12:55 PM

Norman,

the problem isn't your price. It's the 2.0 spec: there are no 2.0 players yet... it's still probably a few more months before we get it. Yes, no argument for me that this is pretty lame considering how long BD has been on the market, especially since HD DVD had it working day-one.

HOWEVER,

my point with the original post was that the PS3 *will* be 2.0 compliant with an update. So it's a "safe buy" now because it already does profile 1.1 and *will* do profile 2.0 (web interactivity). I'm not sure what the cheapest price of a PS3 is, but it's probably a little above your $250... but still close enough to warrant consideration.

Quote:

Are you saying that with my PS3 I would have to bypass the amplifier's capabilities and rely on the PS3 to turn TrueHD & DTS MA into PCM for output?

If that's right, how would that sound as opposed to sending the unconverted signal to the amp for decoding?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. The PS3 has to do the "extraction" of both TrueHD and (soon) DTS-HD MA to PCM for passing over HDMI.

In theory they should both sound the same since it's getting turned into PCM by one device or another. But in practice it's possible that some variables *could* affect the sound depending on where it happens. For instance, jitter might affect PCM over HDMI differently than bitstreamed compressed audio data. It's also possible that dialog normalization and other "features" of TrueHD, or some sort of additional processing, could be applied in one case but not the other (or applied differently) depending on your gear and set-up.

Since I can only decode to PCM and hear it that way I can't compare myself. But I can say that the decoded 5.1 24/96 TrueHD on the David Matthews BD (sent as PCM over HDMI to my Marantz) was beyond belief.

BTW, I bought a Marantz 8002 with HDMI 1.3 and built-in decoding of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA so I could keep my options open in the future: the PS3 is not the last BD player I'll ever own and I'd like to hear it both ways and decide what I like better with my next player (bitstream versus extraced PCM). I would encourage ANYONE buying a new audio receiver to do the same: don't get ANYTHING that doesn't have HDMI 1.3 *and* internal advanced audio decoding. Keep your options open... you might have that receiver for a long time (had my last one for over 5 years) and you want to make sure it can accept and decode these new formats to ensure that you're not going to miss anything going forward.

Norman Matthews · 01-05-2008, 01:00 PM

Thanks, David. My main problem with picking up a PS3 is temptation. I buy too many movies and games as it is. Right now, it's easy to not pick up PS3 games, since I don't have a PS3, and the same would be true if I went Blu-Ray standalone. But the minute I picked up a PS3 for Blu-Ray playback, the temptation to pick up some of the PS3-exclusive games starts. And it's something that objectively I know I just don't need.

Plus, I always planned to upgrade my Xbox 360 add-on to a standalone HD DVD player, and I'm sure I'd start thinking the same thing about my PS3 almost immediately. There's just no way I can't think of a game console as a temporary solution for movie-viewing.

DaViD Boulet · 01-05-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Thanks, David. My main problem with picking up a PS3 is temptation. I buy too many movies and games as it is. Right now, it's easy to not pick up PS3 games, since I don't have a PS3, and the same would be true if I went Blu-Ray standalone. But the minute I picked up a PS3 for Blu-Ray playback, the temptation to pick up some of the PS3-exclusive games starts. And it's something that objectively I know I just don't need.

Hah!

Can't help you there.

Funny because I've had the PS3 since since it was first release and I have yet to buy a SINGLE game!

BTW, unlike the 360 add-on, the PS3 is a true "stand alone" BD player... a single-box solution just with gaming capability (the only "gaming" aspect for BD movie watchers is the unorthodox shape and increased fan-noise to cool the cell processor versus a "regular" BD player). It cues up and plays a BD movie or DVD when you insert, has full HDMI for video and audio with no hic-ups, has the fastest load-time of any BD player on the market, great DVD upscaling, and has an optional blue-tooth remote for those who don't want to use the game controler for movie use. All of this means that it's as easy, straight-forward, and high-performance as a regular BD player (ie, the significant other can use it while you're not around without calling you for instructions).

Norman Matthews · 01-05-2008, 01:13 PM

Well, I have to say, my 360 add-on is simpler to use than any standalone media player of any type I've ever owned, particularly for anyone even marginally familiar with the 360's interface. Plus, any disc inserted while the unit is already on boots up immediately, and it did come with a great remote.

Ha, I'm finding I need to keep myself from talking about the add-on in the past tense.

Okay, next question: As someone who did own a PS2 and still has a few of those games laying around, if I think I might ever want to pop one of those games in, I need to stay away from the 40 gig PS3, right? Any other differences between the models I should be aware of?

DaViD Boulet · 01-05-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Well, I have to say, my 360 add-on is simpler to use than any standalone media player of any type I've ever owned, particularly for anyone even marginally familiar with the 360's interface. Plus, any disc inserted while the unit is already on boots up immediately, and it did come with a great remote.

Good to hear (never had a 360 add-on so don't know first hand). BTW did that version of the add-on have HDMI or just component video... or did that depend on the game console version it connected to?

Norman Matthews · 01-05-2008, 01:22 PM

It all depends on the console it's connected to. Having a first-gen 360 (and never a problem of any type, RROD or otherwise, knock on wood), I've got mine running through the VGA connection.

Any input on the differences between the PS3 SKUs?