Universal HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players: Absolutely the WORST thing that could happen?

John H Ross · 06-24-2006, 09:53 AM

There's an interesting article in Home Cinema Choice magazine (Issue 129) which includes comments from Meridian's chairman Bob Stuart. In it he says that "DVD Audio and SACD is a classic example of what happens when there's a format war. People stay away. The absolute worst thing that happened with SACD and DVD-A is that somebody made a universal player. The arrival of the universal player allowed the war to drag on, which allowed the music industry to say "we're agnostic, we'll make software for anyone that wants it". As a result the conflict was never resolved".

I agree with these comments. I believe that this format war will never be resolved and, as such, HD will never truly be embraced until the NEXT format comes along. I believe the next format will be unified.

Comments?

John

Pete T C · 06-24-2006, 10:22 AM

I agree. And personally I think the "greed" of Blu-Ray stalwarts could make both formats lose.

By greed, I mean that HD-DVD offers everything we need in a replacement for DVD and also has the most consumer-friendly package that would make it a contender for replacing DVD. Waiting for some hyped up promise by Sony does nothing but damage the survivability of hidef dvd.

HD-DVD has the name, the backwards compatibility/hybrid discs, less DRM, and the technology ready now to replace DVD. Blu-Ray *might* in the future be able to deliver more space, but HD-DVD has shown they have their shit together now and that HD-30 (and even HD-15 in some cases) is more than enough to deliver detailed artifact-free hidef content with VC-1.

I don't understand the fascination of holding on for 50gb Blu-Ray when the extra space it provides is completely unnecessary - not to mention that there is a 45gb HD-DVD disc in development and that manufacturing costs of 50gb Blu-Ray discs appear to be extremely expensive right now. Heck, if you support Blu-Ray you might be stuck with 25gb mpeg2 releases!

By holding out for Blu-Ray's promises which have fallen very short so far, you are extending a format war that doesn't even need to happen as HD-DVD is here now and ready to go - while at the same time making a replacement of DVD less likely to happen. When Divx was out most HT buffs didn't say "I need to buy movies in both formats so I'll buy Divx." They simply bought DVD until all studios released DVD. Same needs to happen with HD-DVD. Blu-Ray has shown its not ready for prime time and even when it is whenever that may be, its very doubtful it will exceed HD-DVD in quality because the current quality of HD-DVD is top notch.

My advice? Hop on that $450 RCA HD-DVD player and don't prolong this longer than necessary

Garrett Lundy · 06-24-2006, 10:58 AM

Don't hold back Pete, tell us what you really think!

Shawn Perron · 06-24-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

I agree. And personally I think the "greed" of Blu-Ray stalwarts could make both formats lose.

Yes, clearly releasing the format with the majority of consumer electronics manufacturer and studio support is the greedy move. If they only had 3 of the 6 majors and a handful of hardware manufacturers, then it would be far more noble and not at all greedy to ship product.

Quote:

iSuppli, which has published so-called teardown analyses of the Apple Intel-based iMac and other devices, said that the components needed to assemble the HD-A1 came to approximately $674, significantly higher than the $499 estimated price the company charges.

In fact HD-DVD appears to be the opposite of greedy by giving you 100's of dollars of player for free. Surely there is no self interest being served by subsidizing the players. Such a noble benefactor of public interest surely couldn't have money making in mind.

FrancisP · 06-24-2006, 12:32 PM

Three different gaming systems have not meant the end of the video gaming industry. Apparently there is enough money for Sony, MS, and Nintendo to make money. The reason DVD Audio and SACD failed is because consumers saw no need to upgrade. If consumers decide that there is no compelling reason to upgrade from SD to HD then at best it will be as niche market and at worst both will fail. Universal HD players don't have that much to do with it.

**HTF Ads**

Joseph Bolus · 06-24-2006, 12:45 PM

I think Universal Players represent the future for all extant optical disc media.

IMO, a "Universal" CD/DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-ray deck will become the *only* deck you'll be able to purchase by November 2008 and will drop into the $199 - $350 range as early as March 2009.

At that point, the studios could do the following:

1. Start scaling back on SD-DVD releases. By November 2009 SD-DVD will become the province of P&S MARed transfers for new releases. It will also be used for older 4:3 aspect ratio TV series and Concerts.

2. Release all new Widescreen movies and catalog titles to HD-DVD first. (Even Columbia and MGM!) The HD-DVD release will be like today's single disc SD-DVD non-SE releases.

3. Sixty-to-Ninety days following the HD-DVD release of the new movie and/or catalog title, re-release the movie to "Deluxe Blu-ray". (This is assuming that Blu-ray achieves its objectives of 50 GB dual layer discs with modern effecient codecs.) The Blu-ray edition of the movie would be like today's "Two-disc" SE's and would include scads of extra features and interactive content.

This is one possible resolution to the format war (and I think David Boulet on this forum has already mentioned this in a prior thread). This resolution should be attractive to the studios, hardware manufacturers, and consumers. But getting to that point is going to make for a very rough next 18 months or so ... In the interim a "Universal player", in conjunction with Netflix, will at least reduce some of the risk for the consumer in trying to chose one format over another; so the sooner it comes to market the better!

Shawn Perron · 06-24-2006, 01:13 PM

I only think universal players would work if the studios abandoned the red and blue packaging. Also the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray logos would have to go somewhere small on the back. If the 2 formats did't blend into 1 product, consumer confusion would kill the formats. Really, there is only room for 1 format in the stores, even if it's really 2. If we get more then 1 million of each into homes, there will be no way to end this war.

JeremyErwin · 06-24-2006, 01:57 PM

Hmm. Meridian... Meridian... Where have I seen that before?

Ah! Meridian Lossless Packing.

I wonder if Bob Stuart has a vested interest in one of the formats. Hmm..

Ryan-G · 06-24-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete T C

HD-DVD has the name, the backwards compatibility/hybrid discs, less DRM, and the technology ready now to replace DVD. Blu-Ray *might* in the future be able to deliver more space, but HD-DVD has shown they have their shit together now and that HD-30 (and even HD-15 in some cases) is more than enough to deliver detailed artifact-free hidef content with VC-1.

I don't understand the fascination of holding on for 50gb Blu-Ray when the extra space it provides is completely unnecessary - not to mention that there is a 45gb HD-DVD disc in development and that manufacturing costs of 50gb Blu-Ray discs appear to be extremely expensive right now. Heck, if you support Blu-Ray you might be stuck with 25gb mpeg2 releases!

You might be interested in this assesssment of the format war...

http://msn.pcworld.com/news/article/...0.asp?GT1=8298

It specifically notes how HD-DVD is pretty much at it's limit for capacity already, couldn't fit a single one of it's titles on a single layer disc, and this is while using VC-1. In other words, it's been out for only a couple months and it's already hit the wall.

The article also mentions that while Toshbia claims 45gb HD-DVD's, it hasn't added it into the HD-DVD spec yet, leaving it's ability to do triple layer ambiguous.

Joseph Bolus · 06-24-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

It specifically notes how HD-DVD is pretty much at it's limit for capacity already, couldn't fit a single one of it's titles on a single layer disc, and this is while using VC-1. In other words, it's been out for only a couple months and it's already hit the wall.

Actually, the HD-DVD/DVD hybrid discs are *all* mastered at HD 15GB single-layer. This means "Rumor Has It" and "Firewall" both fit on a 15 GB single-layer and with good HD quality. Those transfers prove that HD-DVD hasn't "maxed" yet. I agree, though, that Blu-ray has the potential to provide better interactive supplements in the future. I even stated so in my post above. But right now, that's all that Blu-ray has: potential.