Impressions from Blu-ray demo at Sony Style

Jesse Blacklow · 06-03-2006, 03:57 PM

I went over to the Sony Style store in Tyson's Corner (northern Virginia) today to check out their Blu-ray demonstration, and get a chance to meet up with David Boulet and some other HTF/AVS folks, who I'm sure will probably chime in on one or both of the forums.

The setup was a prototype of the Sony BDP-S1 on a 70" Qualia 006. The player looks better in person than it does in the pictures, but it's obviously too buggy for primetime (and it was only capable of 1080i, for now). Since it's not expected for another 2 1/2 months, I'm hoping they've got time to work out the kinks. The demo disc contained a bunch of ad-style reels, scenes from several movies, a bit on interactivity, and a split-screen clip. The ad-style reels contained footage from (off the top of my head): House of Flying Daggers, Stealth, Hitch, Hellboy, Lawrence of Arabia, Chronicles of Narnia, Sahara (2005), Underworld: Evolution, Lemony Snicket, Fifth Element, Spider-man 2, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Batman Begins, Constantine, Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven, Moulin Rouge, and Ultraviolet. And--okay, okay, you want to know how it looked, right?

Frackin' awesome!

Images are crisp, with eye-popping colors, and are free of motion artifacts or horrible macroblocking, with such minimal EE that (to my eyes) it was essentially gone from 7' away. As I mentioned above, there were short (~3 minute) scenes from movies like Spider-man 2, Chicken Little, Chronicles of Narnia, Ultraviolet, Click, Underworld: Evolution, and Fifth Element. Of special note were the Chicken Little and Click demos. The former is digital animation, and the latter was apparently filmed with Sony digital HD cameras. Both were amazingly detailed, and would easily make you forget about getting them on DVD. The split-scene reel showed the choosing of the swords from Kill Bill, first in SD, then in HD, then split down the middle. The change in detail was amazing. Unfortunately, the Fifth Element clip was jarringly different from everything else. I don't know if it was the master or the clip, but it looked more like an upconvert of the Superbit DVD than HD. But everything else was top-notch.

From all indication, this was all done in MPEG-2, and with the exception of Fifth Element, looked phenomenal. Unfortunately, we couldn't get the bitrate, but in comparison to the HD DVDs done in VC-1 that I saw later (if you read this, thanks again Jaffrey!), there was virtually no difference. It was pointed out that it made a tiny difference in text (such as subtitles), but if I was watching a movie, I can't rightly say I would notice it. I'll leave that up to the reviewers to harp on if it's still there.

Overall, I was very impressed, and more impatient than ever*. I'm tempering my impulses by reminding myself that more brands (and cheaper players) are coming down the pike quite soon, but if they bring on the titles, I'm not sure how long I can hold back.

*Yes, I know that HD DVD is here now, but they've yet to give me anything that I really want, either in brands or titles.

ETA: I forgot the John Legend and Dido concert demos, which IMO is where a lot of HD broadcasts have problems because of fast cuts, high random motion, and lighting. The video on the JL bit didn't seem to be deinterlacing correctly, and was in 2.0. However, Dido's "White Flag" was flawless. It's the first time I've seen a concert in HD where the lights and audience didn't turn into a blocky blur. Again, motion and compression artifacts simply didn't show up. Concerts on HD disc might be a big draw, which is why I'm guessing one of the "ad" loops made sure to show SonyBMG and Universal Music Group.

Craig Sherman · 06-03-2006, 06:59 PM

Shame about Fifth Element. I figured that would be one of the format's preeminent reference discs.

CS

Rob_HD · 06-03-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse Blacklow

I went over to the Sony Style store in Tyson's Corner (northern Virginia) today to check out their Blu-ray demonstration, and get a chance to meet up with David Boulet and some other HTF/AVS folks, who I'm sure will probably chime in on one or both of the forums.

Jesse - the other posters who saw the Bluray play CLEARLY stated that there was very visible artifacting (from Mpg2) one the demo disks, especially when there was light to dark contrast - as in titles, etc.

How do you speak to this?...

Link... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30

Larry Sutliff · 06-03-2006, 09:53 PM

Excellent news, I'm glad to hear that the BD demo was so impressive. Looking forward to getting a player this summer!

Jesse Blacklow · 06-03-2006, 10:43 PM

Wow Rob, I guess your hatred of Blu-ray has literally blinded you to nearly everything that was said here and in your link. I was there, and as you failed to notice, I mentioned what plazman said in my post. His was the only mention, and it really made no big difference to him, especially since this was a demo disc. I was talking to him and got his reaction. He was impressed, and is as excited for Blu-ray as he is for HD DVD. Not only that, he actually repuditates you and rdjam's (if you're different posters) attempts to bash PQ not once, but twice. Why don't we start here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by plazman

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdjam

Hi Plazman,

I just want to clarify. Your post sounded like it meant articafting (ie from mpeg) was visible around the text (ie "Hi Definition") that was actually encoded in the video material - not the subtitling (applied by player separately from video stream) that nyg is referring to, correct?

Yes. There is obvious artifacting around any bright sharp images and they show up most clearly on text in the image. This is undeniable!

EDIT: Sorry, I realized I should put some explanation to this:

1. Is BD a huge improvement over SD DVD? Absolutely
2. Were there any pixelation or other issues that would make for a less than perfect viewing? No. Remember the last time I saw BD in NYC there were major IQ issues with fast moving scenes. None this time.
3. Will the PQ absolutely thrill anyone who buys into BD? Definitely

Yes. there was artifacting along edges which was visible in text and other bright sharp images/lines, but I don't want this to come off as some sort of major eye-sore or anything. Perhaps makes the picture less than pristine, but not poor and was not a factor in most of the demo clips.[emphasis mine]

and then go here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by plazman

If anything, I believe anyone who sees the demo will sound ridiculous for bashing BD. The picture quality - which this demo was all about is awesome.

I find it equally annoying when I find people bashing HD DVD and the Tosh, and declaring BD a winner when they are yet to see BD software or harware being better.

Let's be fair. If you peel away the FUD, both are essentially delivering the same performance. I also qualified my observations by saying any artifacts I saw was not a big factor, but it was very clear to me that edges are finer on HD DVD. I'll stand by that. But would it prevent me from buying BD? definitely not![emphasis mine] Do I wish BD used a more advanced codec? absolutely. Am I a genius? clearly not

Furthermore, I don't know about all those "other posters" you're talking about, because they don't even exist. And you don't have to take my word for it. Everyone's free to check out the entire thread Rob linked, but I believe every impression other than plazman's can be found here, here, and here, and none of them had any misgivings. And now Rob, since you're the guy that is constantly mentioning what we'll see, let me ask you something. Have you seen this demo, and have you compared it HD DVD? Could you say for sure that the sharp eyes on both forums are not up to your Olympian standards? Would you say that this demo disc, in a pre-production player, on a non-1080p native display is as representative of the format as the HD DVD demos in March were (i.e., not totally)? Please, let us know.

**HTF Ads**

Ryan-G · 06-04-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob_HD

Jesse - the other posters who saw the Bluray play CLEARLY stated that there was very visible artifacting (from Mpg2) one the demo disks, especially when there was light to dark contrast - as in titles, etc.

How do you speak to this?...

Link... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30

It's interesting, in reading that thread I see many indications that the artifacting was only on text, was very minimal in fast moving scenes, was comparable to HD-DVD, and wasn't an issue.

I also see a few people mentioning color banding issues with HD-DVD, a much more important issue that prototype units. Perhaps you'd rather talk about production level HD-DVD units with color banding issues? Perhaps we should start a petition for Warner to abandon HD-DVD because of the clear inferiority of the format as reported by the knowledgable industry veterans on the AVS forum?

Or perhaps you could quit trying to bash BR every chance you get by exagerrating and skewing everything you can get ahold of?

Rob_HD · 06-04-2006, 06:34 AM

Hi Jesse - I wasn't launching a war on Bluray. I was merely including Plazman's observations. So it was a simple, accurate statement - not bashing.

Some of the issues Plazman reported on were clearly because the unit is pre-production, so it's not an issue to be worried about yet. Plazman was careful to point that out. But he gave the PQ award to HD DVD.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7769172

Quote:

Originally Posted by plazman

I accept that everyone has an opinion and it does look like a lot of BD fans are commenting on this thread.

1. The Sony demo is at best comparable to HD DVD, but most people who have owned HD DVD will feel HD DVD is superior.

2. The artifacting is obvious and I believe as more people start viewing these demo they will start reporting on this.

3. FWIW pausing, advancing or rewinding will freeze the Sony Player, so you can't really test anything other than the demo PQ in play mode.

To say the Sony BD-1 is superior to the XA-1 in my opinion is a clear case of exaggeration (IMHO)

Rob_HD · 06-04-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan-G

It's interesting, in reading that thread I see many indications that the artifacting was only on text, was very minimal in fast moving scenes, was comparable to HD-DVD, and wasn't an issue.

I also see a few people mentioning color banding issues with HD-DVD, a much more important issue that prototype units. Perhaps you'd rather talk about production level HD-DVD units with color banding issues? Perhaps we should start a petition for Warner to abandon HD-DVD because of the clear inferiority of the format as reported by the knowledgable industry veterans on the AVS forum?

Or perhaps you could quit trying to bash BR every chance you get by exagerrating and skewing everything you can get ahold of?

The BD artifacting was present anywhere that there were sharp, hi contrast lines, per the posts on AVS - text is just the most obvious candidate for this.

There is no banding on anything I've seen on HD DVD. The single post that said this on AVS was someone who saw a demo on a DLP display, and other posters said it was likely the display causing what he said he saw.

Jesse Blacklow · 06-04-2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob_HD

Hi Jesse - I wasn't launching a war on Bluray. I was merely including Plazman's observations. So it was a simple, accurate statement - not bashing.

O RLY? Other posters and mods here would say your statements here speak otherwise. The fact that the tone of your post was confrontational (caps, accusatory language), and you made 1 person's minor nitpick sound like major flaws observed by many viewers doesn't help.

Quote:

Some of the issues Plazman reported on were clearly because the unit is pre-production, so it's not an issue to be worried about yet. Plazman was careful to point that out.

So, if I mentioned it too, why bring it up again? Again, no one seems to have seen it to the extent you want them to, and many of them seem to be format-neutral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob_HD

The BD artifacting was present anywhere that there were sharp, hi contrast lines, per the posts on AVS - text is just the most obvious candidate for this.

There is no banding on anything I've seen on HD DVD. The single post that said this on AVS was someone who saw a demo on a DLP display, and other posters said it was likely the display causing what he said he saw.

Again, have you seen this demo? Can you say "BD artifacting was present" (your words) exactly as described? Can you rightly say it was the source and not the display or the player? Because that's how you're portraying it.

Larry Sutliff · 06-04-2006, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob_HD

The BD artifacting was present anywhere that there were sharp, hi contrast lines, per the posts on AVS - text is just the most obvious candidate for this.
.

I didn't know you were present at the demo, Rob.