[RAF]

Without a doubt, one of the buzz words at CEDIA was 1080p. There were lots of 1080p monitors around but, surprisingly, not so many that actually accept a 1080p native signal. I'm starting this thread to have a dialogue about 1080p information and misinformation. Let me get the ball rolling:

A 1080p monitor is capable of displaying a 1080p signal. However, it doesn't necessarily accept a 1080p signal as an input. It can produce 1080p with its internal scaler, scaling up lesser sources to achieve 1080p pictures. Right now this is not a major problem because there is very little 1080p source material out there and this is usually limited to HTPCs and other "hobbyist" applications.

However this situation will change shortly with the eventual introduction of High Definition DVD players. By next year, lots of people will have Sony Playstation 3s and I'm willing to bet that Blu-Ray will offer 1080p output. For those who have 1080p sets that do not accept 1080p input directly this means that they will have to take a lower resolution output from the player and feed it into the display which will then scale it back to 1080p for viewing. That's two stages of scaling (down and up) that don't need to be in the loop and two places where artifacts and other picture degradation can be introduced. With a 1080p input on a 1080p set you avoid this altogether. So while buying a 1080p set without 1080p input might not mean much right now, it surely will in a year or so and retrofitting the display will not be easy, if at all possible.

One of the problems is that statements such as, "the HDMI standard does not yet support 1080p" were being bandied about by some at CEDIA - mostly the manufacturers whose sets don't accept native 1080p input. This is not really true. While the current HDMI specification (version 1.2 adopted on 08/22/05) doesn't have 1080p listed in its minimum standards that doesn't mean that HDMI doesn't support 1080p. There are plenty of devices out there with HDMI jacks that use 1080p. However, in order to support 1080p input, the device must contain the chipset and associated circuitry to use it properly. And more electronics = higher cost in a very competitive business. A little later (maybe 16-24 months from now) the HDMI specification will add 1080p to the minimum standard as a mandate and then all new devices will have to support 1080p. But until then, it's CAVEAT EMPTOR. For now a lot of the manufacturers are skirting the issue.

Lots more to discuss, but I'll open the floor to comments rather than ranting on at this point. Feel free to jump in here.

[Matt Wright]

So the really uncertain part here is whether the electronics at the other end of the HDMI connector really can do 1080p or not. Perhaps [wishful thinking] some manufacturers are being careful and currently calling it "1080i only" until shipping next gen Hi-Def DVD players capable of real native 1080p output are available for testing.

The "line" many companies are telling people is that the best source to feed one of the 1080p sets is 1080i and then just let the TV deinterlace it. The manufactuers then brag about their deinterlacing/scaling units and how you'd never know the difference, etc. etc..

[RAF]

Quote:

So the really uncertain part here is whether the electronics at the other end of the HDMI connector really can do 1080p or not. Perhaps [wishful thinking] some manufacturers are being careful and currently calling it "1080i only" until shipping next gen Hi-Def DVD players capable of real native 1080p output are available for testing.

Yes, it's not the wire or HDMI connectors that determine 1080p capability but the chip set and associated circuitry that process the incoming signal. I was hoping that some manufacturers who chose not to include the 1080p circuitry at the input would at least make that stage modular so a new circuit board (or whatever) could be swapped out when they decide to include 1080p input capability. But that would defeat the whole purpose of "built in obsolescence."

Quote:

The "line" many companies are telling people is that the best source to feed one of the 1080p sets is 1080i and then just let the TV deinterlace it. The manufactuers then brag about their deinterlacing/scaling units and how you'd never know the difference, etc. etc..

That's just technobabble to rationalize their cost-cutting methods. It might actually make sense right now when there isn't very much native 1080p source material but once 1080p sources become common no amount of rationalization is going to change the fact that forcing the 1080p source material to scale down and then scale up again will introduce two undesirable stages of processing. The signal has to be affected.

And no matter how good the internal scalers are on some of these sets, no scaling at all is even better.

We live in interesting times....

[Jamie E]

Robert, thanks for that clear explanation. I find it pretty amazing when this topic comes up on other forums, many who have already bought (or who really, really want to buy) a new 1080p TV, try to rationalize this lacking feature by saying that a 1080p digital input really isn't necessary. To that, I say a full 1920x1080 display isn't really necessary right now either since OTA, cable, and satellite HD broadcasts aren't approaching the full potential resolution of HD, delivering perhaps only 1200x1080.

Of course, no one would buy a 1200x1080 display, because we all know that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are just around the corner, and they WILL deliver a full resolution HD picture. For the same reason, I feel it would be silly to limit yourself to a maximum digital input of 1080i, with many 1080p sources coming up.

[RAF]

Yes, I agree. If you are purchasing a 1080p display to last somewhere around 10 years or so it probably would be prudent to look for something that accepts 1080p native input, especially since some manufacturers offer them right now. It is true that there is not much 1080p source material available today but I'm relatively sure this will change within a year or two. The first salvo might be high definition DVDs (either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD or whatever) but one never knows if there will be 1080p connection problems due to all the copyright protection issues. I predict that it will be a bit rough at first (connecting 1080p output to 1080p input from commercial sources) because of this. For example, I have been told that some Cable boxes from Scientific Atlanta that provide 1080p output on an experimental basis have trouble interfacing with some 1080p input capable displays since the display can't interpret the 1080p signal as being a valid one and all you get is blue screen (or green screen) with an error message stating that the source material is copyrighted.

Some people are willing to forego native 1080p input because the sets will scale up other resolutions to 1080p for display and it looks very, very good by today's standards. And since there is an outside chance that true 1080p sources, on a large scale, might be a bit further away than we think they are willing to buy 1080p sets that only scale to 1080p. That thinking involves wanting the best possible picture right now without being concerned with possible future sources. In those cases, the buyer will live with the lack of 1080p input and deal with this when 1080p native sources are the norm. It's called "upgrading."

I'm torn. On one hand I'd like a set that offers 1080p input. On the other hand that SONY SXRD 50" set looks very sweet! I predict that this will be one of the more confusing aspects of Home Video over the next several years as more people acquire HD hardware.

[Adam Gregorich]

Keep in mind that the current 1080P rear projection DLP chips don't have 1920x1080 mirrors. They are 960X1080. They use pixal shifting (wobulation) to get the full resolution. The front projection chips will be a true 1920x1080. That doesn't mean it can't look good (HP and Optima looked great),

[Adam Gregorich]

Here is some more info on the HP until I get pics up:
Review:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=1
Spec sheet:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/pr...e/ds_6580n.pdf

[Sam Posten]

I REALLY would like to buy the new Sony 50" SXRD set, but for me blowing $4k on a set that can show 1080p but not accept it via inputs is MADNESS.

How many consumers will be misled into thinking these sets will display pixel perfect 1080p from a Playstation 3 and be totally bummed out that after spending $4k it WONT WORK???

Sam