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05-09-2003, 05:39 PM
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#2 of 10 
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Local Time: 08:03 PM
Local Date: 10-11-2008
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) Is DD-EX true discrete 6.1? Or is the 6th channel matrix-encoded from Left surround and Right surround only?
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The 6th channel is a matrix of the right and left surrounds.
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2) DTS-ES Matrix is not-true 6.1 (6th channel matrix encoded) while DTS-ES Discrete is true 6.1, right?
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DTS-EX has a discrete 6th channel, DTS-ES has a matrix 6th channel.
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3) Is there a true discrete 7.1 encoding (DD or DTS)? Or is the max number of discrete channels up to 6.1?
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As far as I know there isn't.
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) If DD-EX is a matrix 6.1 channel then why are there some DVDs like Gladiator which have DD-EX on them? I would assume that ALL 5.1 DVDs would also be 6.1 DVDs (and 7.1) if one has the right receiver and right number of speakers?
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A dvd has to be encoded in DD-EX to be played back in 6.1. All dvds are not encoded in EX, check the dvd package. Most if not all 6.1/7.1 receivers has the ability to take a 5.1 soundtrack and turn it into a 6.1/7.1 mix. It will not be a true 6.1/7.1 mix.
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5) If I want to setup a 7.1 HT, should I necessarily look at a THX-certified receiver because Extended Surround was invented by THX/Dolby Labs, I believe? Or will something like Denon AVR1082 which has 7 discrete amplifiers suffice?
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You do not need a THX-certified receiver to setup a 7.1 system, any receiver/amp that has 7.1 processing will work.
Hope that this helps. |
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05-09-2003, 08:10 PM
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#3 of 10
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Local Time: 05:03 PM
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Actually there is only DTS-ES no EX
DTS-ES can be one of either Matrix or Discrete depending on how it was mastered.
And yes any 6.1 reciever will play a 6.1 matrix soundfield off of any 5.1 material.
DD-EX simply has a flag to force this on the reciever otherwise you have to manually put the reciever into a 6.1 matrix mode for the DVD you're watching.
For those of you who know your job is to teach.
For those of you who dont know your job is to learn.
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05-10-2003, 11:10 AM
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#4 of 10
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Member
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Local Date: 10-11-2008
Posts: 4,759
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What jeremy said.
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05-10-2003, 12:05 PM
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#5 of 10
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Member
Join Date: May 2003
Local Time: 06:03 PM
Local Date: 10-11-2008
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Thanks a lot guys! That cleared up some of my questions.
So, basically, DD-EX DVDs are only a marketing fad. The only difference between a DD-EX DVD and a non-DD-EX DVD is the encoded flag in the DVD which can anyway be set manually in a 6.1/7.1 capable receiver.
Also, I learned that 6.1 discrete is the max it goes (DTS only, DD doesn't have the capability). There is no discrete 7.1 by eiter DD or DTS.
This brings up another question:
1) Can any DTS 5.1 material be played in 6.1 DTS-ES Matrix if one has a DTS-ES receiver?
2) Are there any 6.1 DTS discrete ES DVDs out there?
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05-10-2003, 12:19 PM
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#6 of 10
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Member
Join Date: May 2003
Local Time: 07:03 PM
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1) My receiver can force the 6th channel, yes.
2) Yes, the ones I own are: Blade 2, LOTR extended dance mix, and Gladiator.
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05-10-2003, 12:56 PM
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#7 of 10
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Local Date: 10-12-2008
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Quote:
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2) DTS-ES Matrix is not-true 6.1 (6th channel matrix encoded) while DTS-ES Discrete is true 6.1, right?
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ES Discrete does indeed have a 6th channel encoded and the processor will play this through the center rear channel and use it as a filter to extract that information from the left & right rear channels, which are unchanged from their original 5.1 mixes. Really, if the matrix decoder is working properly, there should be very little audible difference (if any) between a Matrix and Discrete soundtrack.
As far as DD-EX goes, although it's true that just about any recording can have the EX processing applied sucessfully, when you, as a recording engineer, know exactly how to 'use' the center rear channel, you can utilize it more effectively by intentionally steering certain sounds. |
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05-10-2003, 12:57 PM
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#8 of 10
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Member
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Local Date: 10-11-2008
Posts: 4,759
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Quote:
| So, basically, DD-EX DVDs are only a marketing fad. The only difference between a DD-EX DVD and a non-DD-EX DVD is the encoded flag in the DVD which can anyway be set manually in a 6.1/7.1 capable receiver. |
Well, there's a fine line there. It's like pro logic, for instance. You can apply pro logic processing to ANY 2-channel source you want. The ones that are labeled pro-logic, though, are mixed with this in mind, so that the results of the processing are intended. Many old soundtracks, and most music is not mixed with this in mind at all, so the results are mixed. Same thing goes with DD-EX, and DTS-ES matrix. The ones labeled as such have been mixed so that the right sounds come out the rear when processed as such. Older titles, and titles not mixed with this in mind will usually sound better if you engage the EX/ES processing, BUT it's your call. It isn't really JUST a marketing thing, although I would say that almost all 5.1 discs benefit from having 6.1 engaged, wheras with pro logic, many things(like music) were better in plain stereo.
As for now, 6.1 is as far as it goes in the home. SDDS can provide 7.1 (5 on-screen channels, two surrounds) in the theater, but the extra two channels on screen aren't ever mixed for (that I know of anyway), and it is not available in the home. I'm not familiar with the encoding there either, but I hear it's crappy.
Other formats, including DTS can, in theory support many more channels. I think MLP can support like 60 something channels or something. Now THATS a lot of channels, if anyone ever used them. 
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05-10-2003, 03:53 PM
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#9 of 10
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Michael Reuben
Administrator
Location: New York City, Lehman Bros. was here
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So, basically, DD-EX DVDs are only a marketing fad.
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It's important to remember that DD EX was initially created for theatrical use, not home theater. It was developed to give sound designers greater flexibility in placing sounds within the larger space of a full-size auditorium. The home version was something of an afterthought, so much so that early DVDs released with EX soundtracks were not even labeled as such.
It might have stayed that way if DTS hadn't created DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, which is strictly a home theater format. There is no equivalent for theatrical exhibition, and indeed, the DTS theatrical version of ES uses the same matrixing approach as DD EX. But DTS wanted to be in the position of offering something "extra" (they're the Avis of HT sound, so they have to try harder  ). The result of their marketing push was to make people much more aware of the rear channel issue. So, in my book, it's DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 that's the "marketing gimmick".
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2) Are there any 6.1 DTS discrete ES DVDs out there?
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Check this thread in Software for a complete listing; it's regularly updated:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...ighlight=dtses
M.
"Most people never have to face the fact that, at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything." -- Chinatown
"What kind of movies would there be if everyone in them had to do what we thought they should do?" -- Roger Ebert
HTF Beginner's Primer and FAQ
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