[DaveGTP]

I put it in 480p mode a couple of times to verify that it was the same (I thought, perhaps the 1080i mode is bypassing the Faroudja). Otherwise, I was running it at 1080i.

My X1 downconverts to 480p anyway.

It was at about 3:08 into the movie. When the fake kid is dropping over (and the alarm is going off). The headboard behind him is not smooth.

I'll see if I can take a photo of it when Stacey is done watching Harry Potter.

As far as Felicity, I noticed that PowerDVD on my PC has the same combing effect (I know the PC DVD software doesn't handle poor flags well), although less noticeable on such a small screen. But I KNOW I saw the weird issue with Monster's Inc. I paused it just to be sure.

And on the anime, seriously, the combing was very very noticeable. Some anime has it no matter what (it's an known chroma/DVD issue), but the titles I looked at were formerly clean of it!

[Don_Berg]

Good Job Dave! This shows that waiting for the "Secrets" experts testing is a good idea. Sounds like the Zenith gets combing on bad flags that many DVDs have, thats why the "Secrets" tests are important. The Zenith must not always enable the Faroujda chip properly.
I particularly chose a Faroudja-based player for DCDi's improvement with video-based titles which my top-rated XP30 does beautifully! I would never trade my XP30 for a model like the Zenith that does just a poor job with video-based titles and also can't format 4:3 titles correctly. Thanks for your extensive testing and review Dave, other users just aren't adequately testing this model like the "Secrets" crew does.

Dave, I know you are leery of getting an XP30 on EBAY. But I did so and had no problems, just do it with a trusted seller. I'm certain you would be truly satisfied with the top-rated XP30, as I am.

[DaveGTP]

I don't understand, though, because the Zenith is Faroudja based. It should be handling the deinterlacing the same as the other Faroudja units. Shouldn't it?

That's why I'm questioning it.

[Don_Berg]

Zenith could be using it in a different flag-reading mode. It is a different Faroudja chip than the one in the older Faroudja-based players. This is why I prefer to wait for the "secrets" expert's testing - I trust their extensive testing for exactly this reason. Any player can work well with most film-based DVD movies, its the video-based and poorly flagged titles that the good models stand out.

[DaveGTP]

Aha! I ironed out some of it. I did some reading and found that it's better to send 16:9 signal to the pj and set the pj to 16:9 (despite it being a 4:3) as then the pj is getting more lines of resolution to work with from the DVD player. I knew this but had forgotten (I knew there was a reason I ran it 16:9 for so long). This is the way I had it for ages, before changing it for convenience a while back to 4:3.

I tried changing them both over to 16:9 and Presto!
the combing/chroma effect I was getting all but vanished in 16:9 mode. Still seeable, but only barely, and possibly only because I knew it was there.
I would hazard a guess that perhaps the MPEG encoder has the Chroma bug, but the DCDi is pretty much masking by resampling the chroma channel (I read @ hometheaterhifi secrets that this is a tolerable solution to the bug). Verrrrry interesting.


Here's some digital photos of what I was seeing (extreme closeup).

Monsters, Inc @ 4:3 :

http://www.svsu.edu/~dpbatzer/monster_1.jpg

Monsters, Inc @ 16:9, projector @ 16:9 (much better!!):

http://www.svsu.edu/~dpbatzer/monster2.jpg


Azumanga Daioh @ 4:3

http://www.svsu.edu/~dpbatzer/az_daioh1.jpg

With Felicity it looks like there is a mpeg artifact right near the biggest spazzing by the player - so the artifact might have just been confusing the deinterlacer.


Still, it does seem like I am seeing more combing on the 4:3 stuff that I should be. Deinterlacing glitches in anime jump right off the screen at you.

I would recommend the player for anamorphic 16:9 but hesitate at this point to recommend it for 4:3, non-anamorphic discs, or video based material. I wish my Panny CP72 was working enough to A/B the material.

I would post this on avsforum too, but it seems like avsforum is down. I will post it tomorrow morning when I wake up, perhaps.

[Don_Berg]

Dave, did your Panasonic CP72 show any of these artifacts? Since the CP72 performs the same as the RP82,XP30 type players in that regard, your tests now prove that the XP30 is superior for many title types that I deem important. This is why the "secrets" tests are so important to compare the de-interlacing quality of different models.

[Steve Schaffer]

One of the guys from "Secrets" posted over at AVS that they'd like to test the DVB-318 but can't get LG or Zenith to send them one. Hopefully someone who already owns one will volunteer to send them one so they can perform thier tests on it. The "secrets" guy sounded amenable to this as long as the player was not modded. They are planning to do the Momitsu and a couple of the other upconverting players soon.

My CP-72 is still working fine, so I can do some A/B this weekend if my Zenith arrives on time, but I'm going to be using component to a crt rptv that can do native 480p as well as native 1080i so my results may not apply to those with fixed pixel displays.

[Don_Berg]

Great Steve! Please test video-based and 4:3 titles and look for combing artifacts during motion for the CP72 vs the Zenith DVB318, both with 480p and 1080i output modes. I hope Secrets can run their tests on a Zenith soon.

[DaveGTP]

I'd love to hear about an A/B test with a CP72, Steve! I'm going to be gone on vacation/honeymoon, but I will read when I come back. My work buddy got my 72 up and running again by tearing it apart, but it is temporary - he says you can hear the spindle motor all the time. I almost asked for it back for a few days to a/b test - but I'm leaving on the trip - no time.

Like you said though, the problem with user reviews is that everyone has different displays!




A guy over on AVSforum A/B'd with his RP62 and was happy with it - it was good to see another Panny/Faroudja owner comment. A lot of the esctatic feedback is really coming from the people upgrading from lesser players. I saw one guy replaced his cheapy Cyberhome and was astounded by the difference. Those of us going from Faroudja units are a little more skeptical/have higher expectations.



I have a feeling that it if I am getting more combing artifacts, it has more to do with the upscaling/downscaling effects I'm getting with 480p up to 1080i down to 480p pj.

I only freaked out on the player's performance when the anamorphic titles looked like crap in 4:3 mode. It was really strange to see the problem vanish in 16:9 mode. I still don't understand why. I know the pj gets more lines of rez with 16:9, but still...



I hope they release some firmware to fix the 480p color bleeding, because I would almost prefer to run the player in that. It would also make for a good a/b comparison on whether it is really better to feed a 480p projector upscaled DVD or keep the signal nearer to native.


I do agree with Don on one thing : the lack of pillarboxed 4:3 is the biggest sticking point. Anyone thinking about getting it should be forewarned. I know the "blame" really lies on their display, but it's important for people to know about.
If I had a display that locked in 16:9 @ 1080i, I wouldn't have this player. Too much 4:3 - we have eclectic tastes. Anime would be the biggest concern, followed by a little bit of TVonDVD, documentaries, classics, etc.

I would also hesitate to recommend for those with 4:3 displays with no 16:9 squeeze, after seeing how my Zenith looked with those titles @ 4:3. I'm waiting to hear from someone with a 4:3 HD unit with no squeeze can comment.