New Pioneer Elite DVD Player With High Definition Scaling

Stan T · 12-05-2003, 01:34 PM

I just saw a new Pioneer Elite DVD Player that offers High Definition Scaling for DVDs, T.V., Cable, etc.

I just spoke with their customer service & they haven't received the new DVD players but they said they should receive them within the next 30 days.

My question to them was to do the high definition upscaling do you have to have the HDMI connection or can you do it through the component cables. The tech I spoke to was very knowledgable & he told me from everything that he has read on the player so far it can do High Definition 1080I through the component cables.

He gave me his name & number & told me to call him back in 30 days & he should have the owner's manual by that time to confirm that for me.

Here's the link for the new product:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...442807,00.html

Here's the press release on it:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...746808,00.html

Does anyone know if the player will allow the High Definition Scaling to 1080I through component cables?

Thanks for your replies.

Eric F · 12-05-2003, 03:24 PM

Quote:

More pixels = better picture.

I'd be wary of this product based on that statement alone.

Nah- It really looks like a good product, but I highly doubt it will upscale out of analog inputs, as that's against the DVD Consortium's rules- at least for commercial DVDs.

Ron Reda · 12-05-2003, 03:42 PM

Very nice looking player...looks solid too. Wow, a 14-bit, 216MHz video DAC?! I bet that puts out a sweet picture!

Jay Blair · 12-05-2003, 03:43 PM

No, from everything I've read, you need DVI with HDMI.

Because of DVD licensing restrictions, no company can sell a player that scales through component. The only company that has tried in the US, LiteOn, has stopped selling their player, the LVD-2001, though with a little luck you might still be able to find one here through a retailer or on Ebay.

However, there are Chinese-made players (including the LVD-2001) still being sold overseas that allow it, and some of the models, such as the DreamX-108 and NeuNeo, can be purchased on Ebay. But now that LiteOn has bowed out from pressure from the Powers That Be, don't expect any major company to ever sell any DVD players that do 1080i scaling through component, at least not without being hacked (the D1 from Vinc. is available that way).

Mort Corey · 12-05-2003, 04:16 PM

It doesn't seem to say, but I would assume that the HDMI port also has HDCP copy protection enabled. I wonder if you could use it to output to a DVI-HDCP port (with the appropriate cable) ? I realize that DVI is video only, but would guess that HDMI might be backwards compatable....anyone know?

Mort

**HTF Ads**

Calvin S · 12-05-2003, 04:25 PM

Yeah, they even pretty much say that in their press release

Quote:

As a result of having a pure digital connection that can handle high definition, Pioneer was able to add the T-REX™ chip into the player, allowing for up-conversion of traditional DVD video signals to high definition resolution.

In other words, the up-conversion only happens with the digital connection -- the HDMI output. And actually the person you talked to may be right -- it may allow 1080i through component, but only for certain content which doesn't include commercial DVDs.

I really wonder if they'll be able to make that DVD requirement stick. And don't think just because they were able to push around LiteOn that it necessarily means the major DVD manufacturers will all fall down too. Up until now, 1080i scaling DVD players were rare, so it wasn't much of an issue. From an economics perspective, though, normally when a market exists, it will develop (downloading commercial MP3s is illegal and fought by the major companies but that software still seems to be thriving).

Calvin S · 12-05-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Because of DVD licensing restrictions, no company can sell a player that scales through component.

The more I think about this, the more strange/absurd this seems, unless I'm really missing something. Since most HDTVs only allow 1080i natively, they are going to take what they are given and scale to 1080i anyway. What's the difference if the player does this versus the TV? My Philips includes Pixel Plus, which sounds a lot like what this Pioneer DVD player is described as doing, except it's in my TV. It would seem Pixel Plus in a DVD player would be illegal, but in a TV it's fine. Why? Am I really missing something.

Here's a description of Pixel Plus to compare to the Pioneer technology:

Quote:

Pixel Plus technology examines and measures all aspects of the incoming signal. A patented chipset that is capable of over 215 million bits of processing per frame of video, interpolates the additional pixels and compensates for the "judder" so often seen in moving pictures. The result is a picture with startling clarity, much finer detail, and dramatically improved depth and realism, all without any visible line structure. Philips Pixel Plus technology is a significant step forward in television picture quality. For a 525-line NTSC transmission, Pixel Plus technology doubles vertical and horizontal resolution, delivering an unprecedented clear and steady picture of 2048 pixels by 1050 lines. This performance nearly matches an HDTV picture (1080i lines).

Jay Blair · 12-05-2003, 06:06 PM

Just for the record, LiteOn is not a small company to be easily pushed around. I haven't confirmed this, but I've heard that JVC owns LiteOn. It's only the small guys in China at the fringes that can't be pushed around.

All this is "strange/absurd". And when did you know Hollywood to be anything but?

Hollywood claims they are losing billions due to theft. But think about it. Do they really? Most of what is stolen is stolen by people who wouldn't buy the product anyway. And most people given the chance to obtain a film in high quility on DVD (or HD-DVD), would rather buy it than steal it, assuming of course that the product is fairly priced. How often do you imagine films on VHS tape were ripped off when they were priced for rental at $70-$100 a film, vs. how many were ripped off that could be purchased at sell-through prices of $10-$20. Hollywood needs to smarten up and stop being paranoid, and instead of paying lawyers, they should use the money to keep the prices of DVDs as cheap as possible and still make a profit, which they are doing right now, bigtime. DVD is making some real crap profitable for the studios.

The record labels overpriced their product, now it's too late for them to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Bottomline: give us early purchasers of HD displays without DVI our 1080i. We shouldn't be punished for starting the trend that has made Hollywood rich(er). And remember, it's just analog we're asking for, not digital.

Stan T · 12-05-2003, 06:12 PM

I hope I can do the scaling through component. I have the Pioneer Elite 710. It would be a little hard to sell my 65 RPTV just to get the new connection.

I asked the rep at Pioneer & he told me that my T.V. couldn't be upgraded with the new connection because of something to do with UL inspecting.

Only the new T.V.s that are due out the 1st of the year would have them.

Hopefully they'll have the owner's manual posted on the website soon so I'll know if I can do the scaling through the component cables.