Will Apple ever make a "normal" Mac?

DaveF · 11-02-2006, 09:17 PM

Having been using my wife's Mac recently, a dual-processor G5 from '04, for some lightweight iMovie editing, I've become intrigued by the prospect of buying a new, Intel-bas Mac. But I find myself a bit frustrated that Apple doesn't sell what I consider a normal, mid-range Mac.

The mid-range price tier, $1500 - $2500, are the iMacs. They are elegant, attractive designs. But they are essentially laptop computers with high-pricing and upgrade options to match. Not my ideal layout. The tower versions, with more traditional PC form factor, suggest what I want. But with Xeon CPUs, meager graphics card, and $3000+ pricing, they priced beyond my means, and ill-designed for my hobbyist, gaming, office-style interests.

I wonder if Apple would again make a mid-range PC, tower or desktop style, in the $1500 - $2000 range, available without keyboard or mouse? I don't think they've had such a machine since the PowerMac days, 604 processors, and the ill-fated clones.

Phil Kim · 11-03-2006, 01:44 AM

I don't think they will. Apple is marketing Mac Pro as a workstation for music/video/photography professionals, scientists/researchers, and design/print designers. Both Mac mini and iMac fill the other extreme, both of which work great for "hobbies and office style interests", although its GPU is not powerful enough for serious gamers.

The fact is, Mac OS X is not yet an ideal gaming platform. Most games are about 6 months behind the PC counterparts, for instance. And like it or not, Mac is not after "traditional PC form factor" market.

If you want expandable Mac without paying Mac Pro's price, consider refurbished Mac Pro (go to Apple's online store and look for Save red tag). Currently, the cheapest refurbished is $2199, but it should drop more significantly over time.

MarkHastings · 11-03-2006, 01:56 PM

No offense to PC users, but I doubt Mac is going to 'dumb down' their systems to make 'mid-level' entries...

It's a double edged sword, as a long time Mac user, I LOVE doing work on my Mac, but I prefer buying PC's at home becuase it's cheaper to do so. If it means keeping the qulaity up for Macs, I'm all for not having them produce lower end machines.

DaveF · 11-03-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

but I doubt Mac is going to 'dumb down'

I don't I want a "dumbed-down" system -- in terms of power I want something more powerful than the iMac but less than the PowerMac. But I want it in a standard configuration so more of the cost is placed into hardware rather than miniaturized form factor (e.g. the the price-penalty of the laptop-derived iMac and mini Macs.)

I also want a PC style design to save money. I want to skip Apple's monitor, since they're double the price of everyone else and not pay for the keyboard and mouse as I don't care for them.

Carlo Medina · 11-03-2006, 07:50 PM

That's just not Apple's philosophy. "Think Different" and all that.

Design is, perhaps not more important than function, but in the eyes of Apple, it's just as important.

So for what you want, you're options are pretty much limited to the WIntel world. Maybe in the future, with the emergence of MacTel (or MacIntel)
Mac will move towards something you suggest, but I doubt it.

Their strategy seems to be this: you want power, real power, then go server class with the MacPro. Otherwise, it's the iMac line for the "decent power but great looks/ergonomics". And then the Mac Mini for the "I want to buy it for my kids so they can be seen as cool by the other kindergarteners".

I think they know that powerful yet affordable midlevel PCs, like the ones gamers on a budget covet, have traditionally very low margins of profit, and are currently (and for the foreseeable future) dominated by the mass makers like Dell and HP or the DIY'ers, and are choosing to not even compete at that level.

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MarkHastings · 11-03-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

I think they know that powerful yet affordable midlevel PCs, like the ones gamers on a budget covet, have traditionally very low margins of profit, and are currently (and for the foreseeable future) dominated by the mass makers like Dell and HP or the DIY'ers, and are choosing to not even compete at that level.

Excellent point!

and completely agreed.

Perhaps this is an avenue they should persue, but would sales be worth going this route? It seems that the majority of Mac purchasers are looking for biggest/best/all bells and whistles.

Quote:

I want to skip Apple's monitor, since they're double the price of everyone else

True, but again, that's the double edge sword thing. The montiors are expensive because there's no competition, but while that drives up the price, it's best not to have competition. Everything works perfectly and you never have to worry about researching which monitor to buy

That's also the nice thing about paying the price for one of these montiors. I have 2 at work and they are IN-FUCKIN-CREDIBLE!!! Better than anything I've ever worked with! The price may be high, but it's hardly considered overpriced.

Carlo Medina · 11-03-2006, 10:07 PM

You know, I think at one time they did try to compete in the mass market world and quite frankly, lost.

So now they know that their fan base is an esoteric bunch (and yes I'm a fan) and are just trying to build something that appeals to them, and if the fanbase grows, that's just gravy. Meanwhile, despite making what I consider to be good hardware, they are still able to have a healthy profit margin for themselves and their dealers (ever seen a Mac sale? Pretty rare, except for academic pricing and clearances).

I think this is the business model that works for them. I really don't think they are interested at all in competing in the mass market world. And they really could, witness their success with the iPod. They know how to make something that can appeal to the masses. But with the low profit margins, and other already established (and very large) competition, it would be an uphill battle that they won't win (especially with Windows entrenched in Corporate America and in the average American home).

Thomas Newton · 11-03-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

The tower versions, with more traditional PC form factor, suggest what I want. But with Xeon CPUs, meager graphics card, and $3000+ pricing, they priced beyond my means, and ill-designed for my hobbyist, gaming, office-style interests.

You don't have to get one with the Nvidia 7300 card, you know. You can custom-order one with an ATI Radeon X1900 (for $250 more).

Thomas Newton · 11-03-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveF

I want to skip Apple's monitor

There's nothing preventing you from buying a third-party monitor as a second monitor for an iMac, or as the only monitor for a Mac Pro.