Home Theater Forum - View Single Post - Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work...

Nick Chavez Beverly Hills · 09-14-2007, 03:48 PM

I understand your confusion as I was where you are now a few weeks back. It took me a while to grasp all the nuances of HD coming from a longtime SD background.

I think you have most everything you need to know covered in your post here and for the most part you are correct with your statements and assumptions. Just for clarification I will try to address your issues with the caveat that I'm sure there are others who could answer them better.

Jim,

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain and share some of your experiences and insight with me as I can relate being a fellow standard DVD fanatic prior to this high definition launch; let me address some of your comments below so I can try and get a better handle on this....

First lets tackle the issues of the new receivers with TrueHD/DTS-HD MA decoding. This had me very confused when I was first looking into HD as I thought you needed one of these receivers to listen to those audio tracks. I l learned that that is not the case as the players themselves decode these tracks and pass them over HDMI or 5.1 Analog outs to the receiver as PCM.

Indeed; this was the exact same thing I was lead to believe by going onto Onkyo's website and reading what their marketing materials said about their new receiver line ACTUALLY DECODING these new formats AT the receiver itself; then, I learn that the tracks are actually being passed as PCM (which should, from previous experience I had, sound louder and more "forceful" than compressed DD and DTS) and this concerned me because the only reason I had for purchasing a new receiver at this point was that I thought the connection would be as simple as it was for standard DVD audio transfer --- that is, coax or optical connection from DVD player to receiver for automatic decoding at the receiver. If these new models do not do this right now, what would be the point beyond future proofing of buying one of these new receivers when I can just keep the Onkyo TX-SR600 I have now and running the analog outs from a new Blu ray player to the 'SR600's analog ins to get the high def sound? Can you see my point?

Think of these new receivers with the built in decoding as being 'future proof' to an extent. If you remember when SD DVD first came out, most players decoded Dolby Digital. With the advent of newer receivers with the decoding built in, most SD DVD players have dropped these decoders and have the receiver handle it.

Yes indeed I remember it; however there are quite a few standard DVD decks still on the market that decode the DD and DTS tracks internally.....regardless, the concern I have now is that I wanted to be able to buy a Blu ray player and new receiver, connect them via HDMI, and be able to hear these new tracks in all their lossless, uncompressed (well, some as less compressed) glory....I dont understand how all this is working now, especially since Onkyo had me believing that their new receivers actually decode the new formats RIGHT NOW with the players that are out.....are you telling me that I would have to buy, say, a 500 to 800-dollar Blu ray player now and then repurchase one in a few months just so the new machine passes the pure DD+, TrueHD, Master Audio, etc. tracks via HDMI to the receiver? This is simply not possible financially for me....

The same will follow with HD DVD. The HD players will eventually just pass the signal to the receivers and have them decode the tracks.

And so if I were to buy a Blu ray player right now and hook it up to say Onkyo's TX-SR605, I would not be passing the audio tracks on these Blu ray discs in a "pure" kind of form for the receiver to decode it?

As was stated in previous threads, no current players can actually pass the TrueHD/DTS-HD MA tracks.

So, people like me would have to wait and REBUY a Blu ray player that would pass the actual tracks just because the current ones dont "talk" with the new receivers correctly? What are we actually HEARING or EXPERIENCING then when the HDMI connection between the Blu ray deck and receiver is passing these tracks as a PCM signal --- the track is exactly the same?

Some new ones announced in the last couple weeks will be able too as (I assume) will most future HD players. In the end, whether the player or receiver is decoding the track, you are getting the exact same output.

But as I stated before, the whole reason I was looking into buying a NEW Blu ray player and a NEW receiver was so that the two could interconnect as easily as a standard DVD player did with older receivers via a coax or optical audio connection...does that make any sense? Now, if the Blu ray player is going to be decoding the audio tracks internally and simply passing it to the Onkyo receiver as multichannel output, shouldnt I just keep the Onkyo TX-SR600 I have now and run analog connections between the player and that older receiver for that matter?

You are correct with your assumption of how to connect the player-receiver-tv with HDMI. You will run an HDMI cable from the player to one of the HDMI inputs on your receiver. Then you will run an HDMI cable from the HDMI out of the receiver to your TV.

Thank you for clarifying this for me; and so two HDMI cables would be needed. With regard to the HDMI input that will be coming from the Blu ray disc player into the receiver: would this simply be, say, "HDMI 1" or would it still be a standard "DVD" input like before when watching a disc? And then the video gets transferred from there into the TV?

The HDMI cable will handle both audio and video so it will be the only connection type needed. This connection will handle all your needs for both HD and SD material. On SD your DD or DTS track will be sent over the HDMI. Most players upconvert your SD video signal over HDMI so you receive that benefit also.

Okay, thank you for clarifying this for me as well; I was wondering what happened with DVD's standard DD and DTS tracks as they are passed over HDMI....so the HDMI cable DOES indeed handle Dolby Digital and DTS in bitstream form for passing to the receiver?

The only real decision left is which player to get. Both formats have their pros and cons. I will state that I have both so I am not biased to either. I started with a PS3 for Blu-ray as everything I read at the time pointed to Blu-ray being the eventual 'format war' winner. A week after I got the PS3 the Paramount/Dreamworks HD-DVD exclusive announcement was made. Instead of taking part in the war, I decided to go neutral and added a Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player. I couldn't be happier with both of them. I also upgraded to a Yamaha RX-V661 as my previous receiver (Pioneer 1014-TX) didn't have HDMI. My current 65" RPTV doesn't have HDMI so I am running component for video as it will be a while before I can upgrade my TV.

Hope this helps!

Indeed it did help in many ways; I am still torn on which format to buy into and that is why I wanted to go with the LG combo player...but folks on here gave me their opinions on that unit and its a bit overpriced and out of our budget.....plus, the better half wants to give Blu ray a chance so, that will probably be the winner for us.

If you can get back to me regarding some more of the questions I had on your replies, I would appreciate it when you have spare time. Thanks again for your help!

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09-14-2007, 03:48 PM	#5 of 39
Nick Chavez Beverly Hills *Nicholas Chavez* Join Date: Nov 2006 Local Time: 12:07 AM Local Date: 08-30-2008 Posts: 78	Re: Okay, Let's Start Over: Please Explain How These New HD Soundtracks Work... I understand your confusion as I was where you are now a few weeks back. It took me a while to grasp all the nuances of HD coming from a longtime SD background. I think you have most everything you need to know covered in your post here and for the most part you are correct with your statements and assumptions. Just for clarification I will try to address your issues with the caveat that I'm sure there are others who could answer them better. Jim, Thank you very much for taking the time to explain and share some of your experiences and insight with me as I can relate being a fellow standard DVD fanatic prior to this high definition launch; let me address some of your comments below so I can try and get a better handle on this.... First lets tackle the issues of the new receivers with TrueHD/DTS-HD MA decoding. This had me very confused when I was first looking into HD as I thought you needed one of these receivers to listen to those audio tracks. I l learned that that is not the case as the players themselves decode these tracks and pass them over HDMI or 5.1 Analog outs to the receiver as PCM. Indeed; this was the exact same thing I was lead to believe by going onto Onkyo's website and reading what their marketing materials said about their new receiver line ACTUALLY DECODING these new formats AT the receiver itself; then, I learn that the tracks are actually being passed as PCM (which should, from previous experience I had, sound louder and more "forceful" than compressed DD and DTS) and this concerned me because the only reason I had for purchasing a new receiver at this point was that I thought the connection would be as simple as it was for standard DVD audio transfer --- that is, coax or optical connection from DVD player to receiver for automatic decoding at the receiver. If these new models do not do this right now, what would be the point beyond future proofing of buying one of these new receivers when I can just keep the Onkyo TX-SR600 I have now and running the analog outs from a new Blu ray player to the 'SR600's analog ins to get the high def sound? Can you see my point? Think of these new receivers with the built in decoding as being 'future proof' to an extent. If you remember when SD DVD first came out, most players decoded Dolby Digital. With the advent of newer receivers with the decoding built in, most SD DVD players have dropped these decoders and have the receiver handle it. Yes indeed I remember it; however there are quite a few standard DVD decks still on the market that decode the DD and DTS tracks internally.....regardless, the concern I have now is that I wanted to be able to buy a Blu ray player and new receiver, connect them via HDMI, and be able to hear these new tracks in all their lossless, uncompressed (well, some as less compressed) glory....I dont understand how all this is working now, especially since Onkyo had me believing that their new receivers actually decode the new formats RIGHT NOW with the players that are out.....are you telling me that I would have to buy, say, a 500 to 800-dollar Blu ray player now and then repurchase one in a few months just so the new machine passes the pure DD+, TrueHD, Master Audio, etc. tracks via HDMI to the receiver? This is simply not possible financially for me.... The same will follow with HD DVD. The HD players will eventually just pass the signal to the receivers and have them decode the tracks. And so if I were to buy a Blu ray player right now and hook it up to say Onkyo's TX-SR605, I would not be passing the audio tracks on these Blu ray discs in a "pure" kind of form for the receiver to decode it? As was stated in previous threads, no current players can actually pass the TrueHD/DTS-HD MA tracks. So, people like me would have to wait and REBUY a Blu ray player that would pass the actual tracks just because the current ones dont "talk" with the new receivers correctly? What are we actually HEARING or EXPERIENCING then when the HDMI connection between the Blu ray deck and receiver is passing these tracks as a PCM signal --- the track is exactly the same? Some new ones announced in the last couple weeks will be able too as (I assume) will most future HD players. In the end, whether the player or receiver is decoding the track, you are getting the exact same output. But as I stated before, the whole reason I was looking into buying a NEW Blu ray player and a NEW receiver was so that the two could interconnect as easily as a standard DVD player did with older receivers via a coax or optical audio connection...does that make any sense? Now, if the Blu ray player is going to be decoding the audio tracks internally and simply passing it to the Onkyo receiver as multichannel output, shouldnt I just keep the Onkyo TX-SR600 I have now and run analog connections between the player and that older receiver for that matter? You are correct with your assumption of how to connect the player-receiver-tv with HDMI. You will run an HDMI cable from the player to one of the HDMI inputs on your receiver. Then you will run an HDMI cable from the HDMI out of the receiver to your TV. Thank you for clarifying this for me; and so two HDMI cables would be needed. With regard to the HDMI input that will be coming from the Blu ray disc player into the receiver: would this simply be, say, "HDMI 1" or would it still be a standard "DVD" input like before when watching a disc? And then the video gets transferred from there into the TV? The HDMI cable will handle both audio and video so it will be the only connection type needed. This connection will handle all your needs for both HD and SD material. On SD your DD or DTS track will be sent over the HDMI. Most players upconvert your SD video signal over HDMI so you receive that benefit also. Okay, thank you for clarifying this for me as well; I was wondering what happened with DVD's standard DD and DTS tracks as they are passed over HDMI....so the HDMI cable DOES indeed handle Dolby Digital and DTS in bitstream form for passing to the receiver? The only real decision left is which player to get. Both formats have their pros and cons. I will state that I have both so I am not biased to either. I started with a PS3 for Blu-ray as everything I read at the time pointed to Blu-ray being the eventual 'format war' winner. A week after I got the PS3 the Paramount/Dreamworks HD-DVD exclusive announcement was made. Instead of taking part in the war, I decided to go neutral and added a Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player. I couldn't be happier with both of them. I also upgraded to a Yamaha RX-V661 as my previous receiver (Pioneer 1014-TX) didn't have HDMI. My current 65" RPTV doesn't have HDMI so I am running component for video as it will be a while before I can upgrade my TV. Hope this helps! Indeed it did help in many ways; I am still torn on which format to buy into and that is why I wanted to go with the LG combo player...but folks on here gave me their opinions on that unit and its a bit overpriced and out of our budget.....plus, the better half wants to give Blu ray a chance so, that will probably be the winner for us. If you can get back to me regarding some more of the questions I had on your replies, I would appreciate it when you have spare time. Thanks again for your help!