APOLLO 13 -- DTS or DD version: which is better? (MERGED THREAD)

these comments are made more interesting by the fact that the dts dvd is one of those rare full-bitrate 1509.5 kb/s dts discs everyone is so hyped about.

The CE is excellent. I bought it when it first came out, which was 1998 I believe. Back then it cost something like $40 (Can.), so you should be so lucky to find it for 12 bucks.

For sound, the DTS LD is the best. Video quality is good too. However, the anamaphoric video beats it. I have the DTS DVD and the DTS LD. I may rent the DD dvd this weekend and see if I notice any differences in video quality between the two and check the video bitrates. I'll compare them using a Panasonic XP30 player with a Pioneer Elite 530 RPTV. I'm curious to see if there are any real video differences between the two.

I own the DD and second the motion that the commentaries (especially by Lovell & wife) are worth $12 alone. It's a steal-- grab it.

I'm a bit surprised by the above comments, but not for the reason you might be thinking ... I entirely agree with them! The part that surprises me is that they aren't in line with most of the opinions I've read previously.

I rented the DD version and bought the DTS version on the basis of the apparent consensus that the soundtrack is much better and one of the best reference tracks around. I honestly couldn't tell any difference, although I didn't have the DD around for comparing head to head. I'm one who almost always prefers the DTS track, for what that's worth.

The part that always seemed odd to me is the soundtrack in general doesn't seem all that spectactular compared to some others. Great clarity, to be sure, but not a ton of impact. Even the oft drooled over rocket launch sequence is fairly average sounding.

My major dilemna was the extras. I've grown pretty tired of extras in general and watch them infrequently these days, but I can't think of a DVD with better extras than the DD version of Apollo 13. Entertaining and informational, both of which seem to be a rarity. I probably wouldn't watch them again any time soon unless with company, but who knows.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I ought to make the switch... I'll have a projector in <2 weeks, so I should have a basis soon for addressing the picture quality question.

Dan

Scott_J Said:


Are you sure it's 5.1???? Because when I played it last night(Isolated Score), my receiver only picked up a 2.0 signal.

Still a great soundtrack. 1st time I've listened to it in awhile.

Joe

I was about to post the same thing Joe...

The isolated score is DD 2.0, not 5.1.

Still sounds great, though!

Sorry guys - my mistake.

Funny this. I was watching my DTS LD of it today just to hear the music over the end credits (sounds fantastic on DTS, better than the DD5.1 R2 DVD anyway), but I may pick up the r1 SpEd at some point.
I think it's odd that in Ron Howard's commentry he praises the DTS sound during the lift off sequence, yet his track was recorded for the Signature LD which did'nt have a 5.1 soundtrack on it at all (because of the 2 commentries). Just made me laugh.



sad I know.................i'll get me coat.

I already have the DTS LD and DTS DVD, but now I'm tempted to pick up the Dolby version just for the extra features as I love this film. To me However, the DTS version is the must have because there was no Dolby Digital 5.1 theatrical release of Apollo 13, only DTS.

Man, I must have bought a fake version at Walmart. I have the DD version i I thought it was one of the worst transfers I have seen in a while-it looks like a dupe from a tape!

When Apollo 13 came out, it was reference quality.

For today's standards, it has certainly dropped. I think the current transfer is still pretty decent, but a remastered version would be nice. Compression artifacts are noticable - a common trait with those late 90's DVDs. Considering how slow Universal has been at re-releasing certain titles, I think it will be a very long time (if ever) we see a new transfer.

Just adding to the chorus of praise for this DVD. I am no extra man, but Lowell commentary is a must-have for fans of this film. If I must only have one version, I would take this one over anything (HD-DVD, DVHS, Holodeck version, whatever) without the commentary.

--
Holadem

Yeah but this DVD is old by DVD standards. The obvious response to this is "less compresion sounds better" but IMO, both DVDs are nearly identical on sound. I own the DTS verion, but I think I'll pick up the DD version for the extras. The DTS version may have slighlty worse picture, but the PQ on the DD version in nothing to write home about. Both are pretty soft, fuzzy, and grainy.

Time for an Ultimate Edition with new transfer and sound mix!

that's my point - people are often saying things like "dts is better" or "if there were only more full-bitrate dts titles"

This thread seems to support the view that dolby digital done well is just as good sonically, even when compared to full-bitrate dts.

Hmm, I wouldn't quite agree with that. A solid DD track holds up well against a rather uninspired DTS track in this case, but that doesn't really tell us anything. Apollo 13 wouldn't rank in the top half of the soundtracks in my collection...

To quote a coach I worked with for a few years, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t." I suspect full-bitrate DTS isn't all that meaningful if the material isn't overly dynamic in the first place.

Dan

Apollo 13 did win the Oscar for Best Sound in 1996. I suspect the dvd's may be dumbed down somewhat as the DTS LD is very dynamic and likely most accuratly reproduces the theatrical mix. This film only released theatrically with a DTS digital soundtrack. There was no Dolby Digital theatrical release. The other contenders for best sound that year were Batman Forever, Braveheart, Crimson Tide, and Waterworld

Actually, the ceremony was held in 1996, but the film was a 1995 release, as were the other films mentioned.

AJG

Yeah, they usually hold the Oscars the year after the releases.

You can pick up the CE Edition at Media Play this week for $5.99 if you buy Catch Me If You Can ($15) at the same time. Good deal!

After all of this talk about the great extra's, I went out and picked up the Dolby Digital version of Apollo 13. I was curious about the feeling that the DD video is better than on the DTS. I did some back and forth comparing between scenes. Just to state the obvious, I'm not a videophile and this comparison is not very scientific.

My setup
Panasonic XP30 with Farjouda DCDI chip in progressive scan mode into a Pioneer Elite 530 Widescreen set via BetterCables Silver Serpent Component. Elite RPTV set to Reference Theater Mode to disable unneccesary video enchancments, such as SVM, and tweaked with Avia. Screen mode is Full to use the anamaphoric enchancment on the dvd's.

First, I checked the video bitrates of both DVD's using a free program called DVD Bitrate Rate Analyzer. The program can give you video bitrates at any point in the movie and an average bitrate. These were the results of the average bitrate of each:

Dolby Digital DVD: 5.82MBPS
DTS DVD: 7.41MBPS

Clearly, the DTS DVD has the advantage as far as bitrate is concerned.

I sampled several scenes back and forth, such as the early scene where Jim and his wife are in their yard looking at the moon. Also the launch scene, and the landing. To my eyes, the DD dvd seems sharper, but seems to be more grainy in some scenes, like the Yard scene with Jim and his wife. The DTS looks softer but the grain is not as apparent. I'm not a videophile, so there are probably things that I missed, but I wonder if they didn't increase the sharpness on the DD version due to the lower video bitrate? I would love to have Bjoern Ray check both of these and get his views on them.

Greg, I think those bitrates you gave are total bitrates, not just video. As this is full bitrate DTS I believe the video bitrate is higher on the DD version.

Hi!!

I'm going to very soon be upgrading to DTS capable equipment and I am an owner of the Apollo 13 Collector's Edition disc. I'm going to be joining Columbia House again for some more free selections after I fulfill my current membership. Should I use one of my selections to get Apollo 13 DTS to go with my current version? I know there have been threads about this before but I've read conflicting reports overs the DTS tracks' superiority over DD 5.1. Some say it's incredible and some say it's not any better. Please help!! (I'm not going to sell my current version)

Ben

There was a very recent discussion about this, and the consensus sort of surprised me (I was in agreement): the DTS version is not worth it. No apparent improvement in sound quality, none of the very worthwhile special features, and supposedly lower video quality. As I said in the other thread, I almost always prefer a DTS track when available, but this is one case where it definitely appears to be over-hyped. I actually "downgraded" to the Collector's Edition as a result...

Since you plan on keeping your CE, I see no point in getting the DTS version. You'll watch it once and realize it offers nothing your other version doesn't... Better to throw the $7 at another Columbia House title.

Dan

The DTS one sounds a little better, but not much and the video quality is definitely softer. Plus, you lose all those fabulous extras. Not worth it IMO. Spend the dough on something better.

Thought this was funny.....

Noticed this customer review at Amazon for the Apollo 13 DVD. (There's another review with similar nonsense as well.) ......

>> "The biggest disappointment is the way this movie was converted to WIDE SCREEN format. Wide Screen format, when viewed on a standard TV is supposed to give you more to see, but of course a smaller picture due to the black strips at the top and bottom.

With most wide screen formats (like Castaway for instance) I lose about 25% of the screen to the black bars - no big deal, you see more of the original movie.

But, with Apollo 13 the wide screen black bars take up literally 50% of my screen. And, to top that off you are NOT actually getting more in the picture. I compared my old Full Screen VHS version side-by-side to the Wide Screen DVD version, and I literally lost half of the view. There was very little gained on the outer edges. Very poor - it looks like they actually took the Full Screen version and covered it up with black bars.

Looking back, I still think I would buy this because of the documentary film.... but beware of how much you lose with the Wide Screen format. If I want to watch the movie, I actually use my VHS tape instead of the DVD.

5 STARS for the movie itself, and the Extras - but because of the lost images in wide screen format, i give it 2 stars in the end." <<

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No, it's not. Welcome to Super-35, baby!

Still, it's the same AR (2.35:1), with much, much MORE of the original camera image area being displayed on our TVs via the DVD...certainly not LESS (as some people seem to want to believe). Correct?

No. You're actually getting less. However, you're not getting the director's intent.

You meant to say that with a WS Super-35 transfer, we ARE getting the Director's intent. Right?

I will amend my orig. thought to:

We're certainly not LOSING any relevent image information via a Super-35 WS transfer, per what Ron Howard wanted the audience to see.