The official BLADE RUNNER SE thread. (Check out page 8 and #790.)

Well I gave my DVD away in anticipation of the new SE and it doesn't bother me one bit. For the next few months I will be building a tremendous appetite and when the new DVD finally arrives it will make watching it all the more sweeter.

A little good news from the Warner Chat about this highly anticipated, highly craved release. Lets hope a press release is made at some point, so if we have to wait another 12 months, at least we will know that we are working towards its ultimate release.

Henceforth, please direct all your comments about Warner's forthcoming Special Edition of Blade Runner in this thread.

At this stage of the adventure, we all know legal issues are preventing the release of this highly anticipated title. And we are all tired of the original DVD with its "early-DVD" look and less-than-acceptable sound.

Yet, it's not such a bad disc...

Okay, Jack, once again, but this time in the thread where you want me to put it in...

As WB indicated in last night's chat, a "Blade Runner" SE is on hold because of legal holdups.

I don't know if I've covered this in depth in an earlier thread, but let's sort out all of this again...

BR was originally a Warner Bros. release with the Ladd Company, but Embassy Pictures (owned at the time of the original release by Norman Lear, whose production partner Bud Yorkin owned partial screen rights to BR) had a minority stake in the film. Embassy originally released BR on video (the international theatrical cut, which to me is still superior to any existing version, was released to VHS and sublicensed to The Criterion Collection for several LaserDisc releases, while the theatrical version [albeit in pan-and-scan] was released under Embassy's own label on LD due to the format's time limitations).

The Embassy company changed hands numerous times--its television division later sold to Coca-Cola (later Sony Pictures Entertainment) and became ELP Communications, which is why when you first saw BR on television it opened with either the Embassy or Columbia Pictures Television logos. The theatrical and home video divisions became Nelson Entertainment (which released later editions of BR). Ultimately the home video rights to the Embassy library would fall under New Line Home Video (the last company to release the European cut of BR on VHS) and Columbia/Sony retained the television rights, while the theatrical rights went from company to company (DeLaurentis Entertainment Group, ParaFrance Communication S.A., PolyGram Pictures) before Studio Canal became the current theatrical and home video rights holders.

Warner would buy back the rights to BR, if only for the 1994 "director's cut" re-release. They also acquired the home video rights, but again only for the "director's cut" (which remains the only version available on video and DVD). While the original theatrical releases remain currently unavailable on video, Warner was allowed to make the U.S. theatrical and "director's cut" versions available for television (they currently lease BR for broadcast on cable's Sci-Fi Channel).

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm only going by conjecture here. The legal hassles right now might be between WB and Studio Canal, current rights holder of the Embassy library. It might be that Studio Canal holds the rights to the original theatrical cuts of BR. If WB does lose all video rights to BR and all rights go to Studio Canal, that would mean we could see Anchor Bay Entertainment (which has also released Embassy titles such as "Mad Monster Party" and "The Daydreamer") release a new video/DVD edition of BR.

With a limited track record of Special Editions (with the exception of "Halloween", "Supergirl", and their endless series of "The Evil Dead" special editions) Anchor Bay would probably do a better job with BR on the mold of MGM's forthcoming new "Dances With Wolves" DVD, even better, by providing no more than 5 versions of BR. Disc One, Side One could contain the new and "final" director's cut Ridley Scott is reportedly preparing, the other side of Disc One could have a seamless branching presentation of the U.S. & European theatrical cuts and the 1994 "director's cut", while Disc Two, side one could contain the workprint version few people have seen, and side two could have the supplements...considering Anchor Bay is an independent company.

So I think the real battle here is between WB and Studio Canal over the rights to BR. If anyone can tell me different, I'm welcome to opinions.

That about covers it with a few details graciously left out. As Jack has stated several times and I concur. The current dvd is not a terrible experience and is what we have at the moment.
This is nothing what I went through, sitting through the New American Orchestra's Score interpretation for years. I waited for the Vangelis Score, that didn't turn out to be a score (but still a fine recording/soundtrack). I have hundreds of dollars invested in Limited Edition/Releases to compensate for lack of a true mass market (high quality) score, that will probably never happen.
I think the $17.99 tide me over dvd is a blessing, actually.

Damn! my head hurts after reading Jo_C's post.



I seriously doubt we will get THAT many versions on the same DVD set. Has there ever been a DVD set that has included more than 2 versions of the same film? Personally I think we'll just get the all new "Yes this REALLY is the Director's Cut" and the original version (International or whatever). As for who will get to release the final DVD. It'll probably be whoever is financing all the restoration work and supplemental features. I hope it's WB as their SE's are some of the best on the market. They're not the usual Special "it's still the same crappy print with a commentary and a few extras" Edition's that most studio's put out.

I just wish they'd sort this thing out and get the DVD on the shelves. Come on guys stop fighting over who owns the rights "it's not very sportsman like is it!"

The Terminator 2 Ultimate Edition DVD contained 3 cuts of the film: the theatrical cut, the extended director's cut, and the "super extended cut" that was a hidden easter egg. It contained the scene with T-1000 searching John's bedroom and the happy ending set in the future. All three were done with seamless branching.

The Dawn of the Dead special edition coming this year will supposedly have 3 versions of the film as well.

I'd be disappointed if we only got 2 versions of Bladerunner on the special edition DVD. We should at least get 3 or 4, because each version is unique. I wouldn't mind if they left off the 1992 director's cut because we already have that on DVD. I just want the original theatrical version, the European version, the workprint, and Ridley's new director's cut.

Wow, my thread title has been altered!

Okay, I have my first "official" thread. Cool! I've been off-line for awhile and what's the first thing I see upon my return? My old BR thread on Page 1! And here we are a year later, still waiting...

Well, I guess one way to look at it is the more time they have the better the set will be. Charlie, if you're reading this please keep us informed of this set's progress.

The original and European are ALMOST identical and should be easy to include if seamless branching is used. Judging by the workprint copy I have, I don't think including that would be that easy via branching. Have to be on a separate dvd.

There is also another site besides the one in my signature. It is pretty up to date on news. It even mentions the recent HTF WB chat.

http://www.tyrell-corporation.pp.se/index.shtml
This is the Los Angeles 2019 site, which I'm sure most fans know of already.



I'm very happy it's all in one thread. Long overdue, considering the amount of threads that pop up. Now if we could just divert is Deckard a replicant? discussions to a more appropriate location.

I loved Charlie's question, How can something be delayed, if it hasn't a release date yet? (slight paraphrase)

Considering that the International version is only about fifteen seconds longer than the American theatrical version, I would think seamless branching would be a waste of time and budget. I'd be happy with Ridley's director's version, the International theatrical version, and additional footage from the workprint, which is nothing more than a rough cut of the film (so it's understandable if Scott doesn't want that released in its full form).

Heck, I'm beginning to doubt that we'll see this disc in the next 2 years. I hope that they include every version of the film that differs drastically from the theatrical cut. Which I guess would only be The Theatrical cut, the first "Director's Cut" and this new cut that Scott is working on. O hope he don't mess it up like Lucas did with the Star Wars crapped up special effecs versions.

Well as this quote suggestion states, it would be on a separate side of a DVD:



I think this is a great idea, a full dual layered side to the final director's vision, another side for these 2 almost identical theatrical cuts with only a minor difference or two, and the older director's cut which would just jump over certain points of a theatrical cut with an added scene. All 3 could easily be on 1 side in a triple branching version like T2. Then on the 2nd extras disc, a full workprint version, or parts of it with other extras, that's a great idea! I mean THAT would make EVERYONE happy, every single picky fan, every single completist. And I think it's good they have legal issues and clearences, means the producers of the release do want everything possible and related to the film on it.

Jo_C,

The problem (as I've been told) isn't between the rights holders as much as it is between the princpals who produced/financed the film. Once this not-small problem is ironed you, the SE will likely be finalized and eventually released.

It's partnerships like these which are the hold-up for such other titles as The Posiedon Adventure SE, which I saw at the Egyptian Theater last Friday. When the question came up regarding this, director Ronald Neame commented that, since Fox owns only half the picture -- the other half was funded by two independent financiers -- it's difficult to handle because of the various rights, estates, etc.

It's this exact same problem which is tying up Blade Runner.

I hope you are mistaken, because isn't Studio Canal the company that screwed David Lynch fans by holding out on the extra scenes for David Lynch's Fire Walk With Me?

For those of us who like the film but don't own it on DVD (yeah, I know), could someone summarize the weaknesses of the existing disc.

I'm always late to a party...

The problem with the current WB disc (in terms of DVD quality...not movie issues like content etc.) are:

It has some serious "windowboxing" that eats into your potential resolution if your display is properly calibrated. I'd rather have a transfer mastered with as much resolution as our DVD 720 x 480 res can provide...and mastered for *top end* hardware like calibrated HDTVs and projectors. If consumer 4x3 sets have too much overscan...don't rob the videophile of resolution to try to fix it!

It's got some noticable MPEG2 artiracting as it's a very "dark" film and an early DVD.

Despite the 16x9 status, there's quite a bit of aliasing and scan-line twitter to be had on credits and fine object detail.

It's not 5.1...and the sound is brittle and harsh and "thin". Not at all what I remember when hearing it theatrically (yes, I saw this same DC version in a theatrical presentation). Too bad WB doesn't do 448 kbps or DTS...if properly mastered, the soundtrack score could be *breathtaking*. Let's hope they manage a good sounding 5.1 DD soundtrack the next time around!

-dave

David:

Thanks. I have fond memories of being the only person in the theater on a rainy Saturday afternoon during BR's initial theatrical run. It's one of my favorite films...

I've been holding off on the DVD assuming that a new edition would be forthcoming. I had no idea of what the issues were/are. Maybe I'll pick up the current DVD anyway; we'll see what DPLII can do for the soundtrack.

I just saw the UK documentary "On The Edge: The Making of Blade Runner." Despite the non-involvement of Harrison Ford and Sean Young, it's a terrific look at the film— and you get to see (albeit on a TV monitor) the infamous lost hospital scene between Deckard and Holden, which I hate to admit isn't nearly as good as I expected (you can see why it was cut out). I'm hoping this is eventually appended on to any release.

Re: weaknesses on the current DVD ( related more to the source than the current DVD )

One other area of the presentation that needs addressing is a general cleanup of at least some of the FX shots. Without going into a list of all of the scenes, one in particular stands out. The sequence involving Gaff flying Deckard to the Tyrell Corporation for his interview with Tyrell and Rachel exhibits a distracting amount of dirt and "noise". It really looks pretty rough. I have to assume that some of the dirt was optically printed in, and that a digital cleanup would be the only way to address some of the artifacts present in this sequence. Just guessing, obviously.

But don't get me wrong. The current disc is certainly watchable, and I'm glad to have it until the long awaited SE arrives.

- Walter.

It's MK2 that owns the missing scenes from FIRE WALK WITH ME, not StudioCanal.

Mark Cappelletty pretty much covered what I opined in a splinter thread, that the BLADE RUNNER hold up is likely dealing with the original producers, not any studios inheriting video or theatrical rights.

Any of you Angelenos who want to see the Blade Runner doc-- they have it as a free rental (rent one at normal price, get one from their extensive "free" section) at CineFile Video next to the Nuart on Santa Monica and Sawtelle next to the 405. It's a PAL-converted dub and looks pretty shaky, but it's better than nothing. The FX tests and the Holden-Deckard scene are worth the rent.

This could be the biggest release for 2004....With the wait possibly more and more extras are being created or found...
this is #1 on my most wanted list to redo....the current version with new teck will be blown away

Does anybody know if progress has been made on the clearance issues?

Will the SE edition have the original version with Deckard's narration? I hope so. I'd like to view the movie both ways. Its been sooo long since I've seen it. I broke down today and grabbed the one DVD that is available for now.

The first home video release, with the narration, can be got on eBay for dirt cheap - even though it's video and it's pan and scan, it's still a cool thing to have until a definitive special edition DVD comes out.

The so-called "director's cut" is really no more than a workprint/roughcut discovered in the early 90s that contained Ridley Scott's version of the film-in-progress before the studio took it away. I think they gave Scott about ten seconds to look it over before they threw it into theaters and on video, so it's not a finished film either. I'm sure there are bigger fans than I who can tell you all of the problems with it, but there are a couple continuity things that never got fixed that some fans have been analyzing for years, when in fact Scott says it was a matter of not looping a line already shot before whatever script revision of the day came in. The color timing is off on some shots, the registration leaves something to be desired, and man, are the opening and end titles jittery.

(If interested, check out Paul Sammon's book "Future Noir" for a much more in-depth analysis of the film and its many versions, as well as behind the scenes info.)

brmovie.com used to be a good source for running progress reports on any news about the Blade Runner Special Edition, but lately they haven't been updating it. Charles (Zinema) for example has made several interesting statements in the past couple months about where exactly the production stalled when legal issues stopped work, but brmovie.com hasn't quoted those comments. They're derelict in their duties, they have not "done a man's job, sir." They're probably as depressed as the rest of us BR fans are.

I think some of the comments are still in this thread (look back a page or two), and others made on alt.fan.bladerunner may be harder to find.

Blade Runner is one of my favorite films, and I am as excited as any to have a new SE in my hands.

However, I've begun to tell myself my current copy is all I'll see in the near future. The Blade Runner SE has joined the elusive likes of the yeti and the loch ness monster...only captured in blurry snapshots...

Will_B, did you actually look before posting that? The BR:SE News page at BRmovie was last updated on 23rd October and does include comments made By Charlie here.

now that Charlie has finished working on the Alien box set perhaps he now has more time to finish the last hurdles of the BR SE

here's hoping