Our top 10's of 2000 - Time to throw down

Al, I think that invoking the "executive decision" is at the core of the issue. If you want all your selections to count towards Seth's compiled Overall Top Ten Rankings, then your list needs to comply with the NY/LA Academy standard, since the intent of the overall ranked list is (or was) to compare HTF's choices with the Oscar winners.

If you want to put In the Mood for Love on your 2001 list, that is your prerogative, but it should not be mandated of everyone, anymore than people should be asked to remove Songs from the Second Floor or Dolce from their respective lists because they have not officially played in the US. The fact that people want to talk about In the Mood for Love already shows, at least in part, that some of my favorable comments about the film earlier this year reached a receptive audience, and I'm pleased with that.

If you are only interested in documenting your Top Ten list (like me) and are not particularly interested in comparing your list to the results of the Academy Awards then you should be able to use whatever standard works best for you. By invoking an "executive decision", the choice of a "whatever works for you" criteria, and the choice not to participate in the Overall Top Ten ranking are negated. For me, I had elected to opt out of the Overall Ranking list, so it does not matter what criteria I use. I only wanted to capture the highlights of my film viewing experience for 2000. Frankly, I wouldn't mind putting Decalogue on my 2000 list as well, since for most of us in the US, this was the first time that we were able to see this film on any format. At least, I tried to stay as close to a 2000 release date as possible.

This is my last statement on this topic as well. On topic, I will be catching Memento this weekend at the Angelika.

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Strictly Film School

We're not drafting the Treaty of Versailles here. This is just a friendly little poll that will hopefully stimulate some fun conversation. Don't you guys have bigger rhetorical battles to wage? Won't someone relent? Please?

It's not an issue of right or wrong to me. It's an issue of moving on. All I wanna know is do I include it on this year's list or next year's? Either way, I don't care, it's not important.

It's an issue of compromise and diplomacy, which Im afraid
isn't in large quantity around this board. That's why these
quarrels get started and alot of bickering is here.
Anyway.. we have one list for Best of 2000 with one view
of how movies should qualify for year and a 2001 list with
a differing view. All this is going to do is leave out
some movies such as In The Mood For Love...its not going
on my 2000 list!! Its not going on my 2001 list!! ME!
no ME! Whaa!!!

Sheesh.

I had erroneously envisioned that this HTF poll would resemble this more civilized world film poll at Senses of Cinema. (Note Brad Steven's citation of a 1928 Jean Renoir film). However, when I tried to explain the very loose "guidelines" used on the Senses poll, I ended up getting brusquely dismissed as selfish, stubborn, and immature. I didn't post my list for carbon dating, just information and discussion. This is not a question of relenting or conceding, but if that is what it takes, then fine. I was mistaken in my idea of what this HTF poll was supposed to represent. Please ignore my list.

Okay, I lied. This is my final post on this matter.

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Strictly Film School

"Fantasia 2000 then becomes a 1999 film.

Fantasia got several public displays that weren't for festivals starting with its NYC premiere Dec 17, 1999."

Whoops! Fixed that. That entire "by-title" list was copied from my Julia Stiles forum and I forgot to check that title.

You will get consistency from me, but also a unintentional mistake or two from time to time.

Thanks,

Jason

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AWESOME Movies Of The Week
jason-whyte@home.com
ICQ: 16733922
I Am Jack's DVD List

"All your Bjork and Leslie Bibb are belong to me!"

Recently viewed Wonder Boys; overall good; pulled it out in the last 30 minutes of the film. Slightly disappointed in Frances Mcdormand's performance, probably because her role was more of the 'straight man'. No paranoia as her mother role in Almost Famous or quirky habits as in Fargo. But I thought Michael Douglas better in this movie than in Traffic and Toby Maguire definately stole some scenes. It bumps Chicken Run off of my top 10 list ..mmm Katie Holmes; man JWhyte, you need to have a site dedicated to her instead!

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"You're going to wear the t-shirt of the band that's playing? Don't be that guy."

"PCU / Nerds are both on the release schedule for the first half of 2001." - from the Fox chat.

I saw Croupier last night but I was very tired to even fully appreciate it. I will leave it on my "To See" list and view it one more time.

Next Up: Girlfight

~Edwin

Received another batch 'o Flix in; tonight's movie was
The Contender. I found it to depend too much on
black-and-white, too much 'us versus them' which normally
I go for and would typically fit into a political film.
I don't think Joan Allen should've been nominated either.
But, Christian Slater in his 'supporting' role pulled off
a convincing wet-behind-the-ears representative, Gary Oldman
did his usual 'villain' role (he was good but not his best
performance by far) but Sam Elliot put a spark in an other
wise dull story. Personally, my favorite part was seeing
Jeff Bridges in a bowling alley (sortof) again.
No threat to my top 10 list .

Also spun The Whole Nine Yards; Matthew Perry
exceeded my expectations of just another 'Friends' cast
member. Didn't get into my top 10 but a fun movie, nevertheless.


Coming soon:
American Psycho

I'll get a chance to see Requiem For A Dream this weekend before anything else. I'm already making room in my top ten list for this one.

~Edwin

Sweet, blessed sanity.

Looks like Jason and I are on the same page at least now. I understand the concerns of how small foreign pics might get left out and his reasoning for his standards. Valid points for sure. And he has fixed his list to meet his standards.


Since I had already deemed the NY/LA 1-week standard (or other US, non-festival release I suppose) and people have tried to follow that (including me), here's my compromising suggestion.

For this thread consider the main list to be the Academy Best Picture standard (NY/LA), BUT feel free to also mention the list that meets YOUR standards (I would suggest that Jason's "public display, non-festival" be the one used, but that's up to you).

This way we have lists that are for certain a common comparison of the same grouping of films. AND some of you still get to give the nod to other films you consider to be from the same year.

The reason for this is to simply cut any confusion off for people who are trying to figure out if their stinkin film goes on the 1999,2000,2001 list. And it also allows other films to not get ignored.

The NY/LA list is NOT intended to exclude anyone (although it inherently will), but instead it is designed to appeal to the largest portion of the HTF, allows us as a group to compare to other critics lists, and allows us to compare to the Academy when they start talking best picture.

And for sanity's sake, once we hit Jan 2002 I'll start up a twin thread to this for Best of 2001 (NY/LA standard) as a subset to what Jason has going. That way no one will lose In the Mood for Love in the shuffle of the lists.

And Jason, Pascal, and Gary are more than welcome to stick lists in that thread if they can humor us long enough to pretend that some of the films we are mentioning are 2001 films, just to make the rest of us feel better.

I hope this is a solution that everyone can live with and we can go back to bashing Gladiator like we should be...oh, wait there's 30 threads on that already. (joking, really)

I haven't finshed the last page, but I haven't seen any comments about our "group" list vs the Academy outcome, etc. What does everyone think about how our total lists came out?

Just be prepared for depression. You've seen Dancer so you should be able to handle this. Burstyn will take you on a journey with a far more powerful effect than anything Traffic threw at you, with regards to addiction. Requiem is a lot closer to a "scared-straight" sort of film.

Hmm...this is gonna be odd. Hopefully it'll make sense after I explain

In Jason's 2001 post I am going by your criteria, Seth. But in this list for 2000, I want to go by Jason's criteria. Why? Because the list is for last year, and enough time has passed that it feels "right" in calling some of my 2001 movies properly as 2000 movies. The benefit of doing it this way (your way for "current year" and Jason's way for "previous year") is that, even though there's overlap, there's no chance for a missed film. Besides, I only have two films listed for 2001 that will also appear here (Finding Forrester and Snatch). Yes, I realize that some films properly categorized as 1999 won't be considered in my list that would be in yours, but that's okay, because I never made a list for 1999 -- this is my very first list, so the starting point is arbitrary anyway.

Jason, please keep me on my toes in here, make sure my 2000 list is correct; thanks!

I am hypocritically ignoring my comments in the Gladiator/mediocrity threads and instead synthesizing entertainment quality and artistic merit into my own personal rating, mainly because there are a lot of 2000 films I haven't seen (many of them purportedly outstanding movies). Unless it's a really bad year, a movie must receive at least a 65% (3.25 out of 5 for those who are converting ) to make my top 10; I usually give a movie at least 50% if it was entertaining enough to keep me interested (though those around 50% surely weren't the most memorable of the bunch). Anything below that means that I had significant problems with it.

So, without further ado, here's my list (I can't believe I took this long posting here!):

By view date
• The Whole Nine Yards - 18 Feb 2000
• Mission to Mars - 11 Mar 2000
• Final Destination - 20 Mar 2000
• High Fidelity - 1 Apr 2000
• U-571 - 21 Apr 2000
• Erin Brokovich - 27 Apr 2000
• Frequency - 30 Apr 2000
• Gladiator - 6 May 2000
• Mission: Impossible 2 - 24 May 2000
• Shanghai Noon - 3 Jun 2000
• The Patriot - 5 Jul 2000
• Me, Myself, & Irene - 8 Jul 2000
• Scary Movie - 11 Jul 2000
• X-Men - 14 Jul 2000
• The Perfect Storm - 15 Jul 2000
• The Nutty Professor II: The Klumps - 1 Aug 2000
• Hollow Man - 4 Aug 2000
• Space Cowboys - 9 Aug 2000 (saw it earlier than that, but don't have a stub to give an exact date)
• The Art of War - 30 Aug 2000
• Highlander: Endgame - 1 Sep 2000
• Almost Famous - 9 Sep 2000
• Titan A.E. - 16 Sep 2000**
• The Exorcist: The Version You've Never Seen - 23 Sep 2000
• Meet the Parents - 6 Oct 2000
• Rules of Engagement - 13 Oct 2000*
• The Skulls - 25 Oct 2000*
• The Contender - 27 Oct 2000
• Charlie's Angels - 4 Nov 2000
• The 6th Day - 18 Nov 2000
• Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas - 2 Dec 2000
• Vertical Limit - 9 Dec 2000
• Cast Away - 2? Dec 2000
• Chicken Run - 2? Dec 2000*
• Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - 1 Jan 2001
• Finding Forrester - 15 Jan 2001
• Snatch - 19 Jan 2001
• What Lies Beneath - 2 Feb 2001*
• The Original Kings of Comedy - ?? Feb 2001*
• Bait - ?? Mar 2001*
• Battlefield Earth - ?? Mar 2001*
• Road Trip - ?? Mar 2001*
• Bedazzled - 29 Mar 2001*
• Romeo Must Die - ?? ?? 2000
• Pitch Black - ?? ?? 2000
• Dinosaur - ?? ?? 2000
• The Watcher - ?? ?? 2000

*Saw on video (satellite, videotape, or DVD)
**Saw at private exhibition


By rating

1. Almost Famous

90%

2. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

90%

3. The Contender

85%

4. High Fidelity

85%

5. Cast Away

80%

6. Finding Forrester

80%

7. X-Men

80%

8. Erin Brokovich

80%

9. Frequency

75%

10. Titan A.E.

75%

11. Snatch

75%

12. Gladiator

70%

There are many other movies I must see, and I'm sure my list will change significantly. Hopefully I'll get a chance to see these in the next few weeks:
Requiem for a Dream, Traffic, Dancer in the Dark, In the Mood for Love, Wonder Boys, Billy Elliot, You Can Count on Me, Quills, Nurse Betty, State and Main, Thirteen Days, O Brother Where Art Thou?, Pay It Forward, Unbreakable...

Here are the rest of 2000 that I have seen thus far:

13. Pitch Black

70%

14. U-571

70%

15. The Whole Nine Yards

65%

16. Meet the Parents

65%

17. Charlie's Angels

65%

18. Dinosaur

65%

19. Rules of Engagement

65%

20. What Lies Beneath

65%

21. Bait

60%

22. Chicken Run

60%

23. Shanghai Noon

60%

24. The Original Kings of Comedy

60%

25. The Perfect Storm

60%

26. The 6th Day

60%

27. Space Cowboys

60%

28. Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas

50%

29. Romeo Must Die

50%

30. Vertical Limit

50%

31. Final Destination

50%

32. Bedazzled

50%

33. The Skulls

50%

34. The Exorcist: The Version You've Never Seen

50%

35. Mission to Mars

50%

36. The Art of War

50%

37. Highlander: Endgame

50%

38. Mission: Impossible 2

45%

39. Hollow Man

45%

40. The Patriot

45%

41. Me, Myself & Irene

40%

42. Scary Movie

35%

43. The Watcher

35%

44. The Nutty Professor II: The Klumps

25%

45. Battlefield Earth

15%

46. Road Trip

10%

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DVD Count: 798

*

Criterion: 2, 9, 11, 13, 14, 23, 37, 62, 65, 70, 89, 108

Great. I think everyone can see that both views on how to
include movies by dates are valid; I originally went with
the same standard as Jason was proposing but wanted to go
with a comparison against the Academy's films, especially
their nominations for Best Picture (which, going by my
personal list, only 2 out of 5 were present). I'm glad we
could come to a compromise on this issue.

Now, I couldn't wait to rent all those movies on my "In The
Wings" list, so I went to see Billy Elliot tonight.
Man! This was a great movie. It definately worked its' way
into my top 10 list which is starting to get
clustered... for the remaining movies, it will be a tough
job to crack the list now.



Btw Dana, that is a very pretty list.

List updated/edited 30 Mar 2001

Btw:
Thanks John! (I think )

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DVD Count: 798

*

Criterion: 2, 9, 11, 13, 14, 23, 37, 62, 65, 70, 89, 108

Dana, my head hurts.

As long as no one bickers with each other about a films year, and they understand why their film doesn't get mentioned during the totals (which are to compare how the HTF felt about 2000 as a critical group) then consider it a free-for-all. (ok, not quite)


BTW, I am going to catch In the Mood finally this weekend as it finally opens in Indy.

It will then go to the top of my 2001 list . I really have not seen a single 2001 film yet and it will be my top contender for Academy Best Picture 2001. It will also be my worst film of the year for now.

I'm changing my picks after seeing a very good movie with Tom Hanks.

1) The Kid
2) The Tigger Movie
3) Cast Away
4) Fantasia 2000
5) Dinosaur
6) Chicken Run
7) Snow Day
8) The Perfect Storm
9) Traffic
10) Erin Brockovich

Requiem For A Dream (out of four) makes it into my #3 spot after just seeing it today. This film has to be experienced on the big. The surround sound was quite compelling and complements Darren Aronofsky’s highly energetic visuals. The music was mesmerizing. Ellen Burstyn’s performance is definitely the best last year. This is a must-see film. Now I have to find the official review thread.

My top three films can easily be interchangeable but since they have to be ranked, it would look like this: Traffic, Before Night Falls and Requiem in that order. I don’t see any other film that will change this makeup. The rest of the pack is way, way behind these three. Here’s my Top Ten List .

Next Up: The House Of Mirth

~Edwin

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American Film Institute Top 100 Films Home Theater Forum Challenge
Countdown Of AFI Movies Left To Watch: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12!

Edwin, glad you enjoyed it. I thought it was a real shame that Requiem didn't get an Oscar nomination. I found it both exhilerating and profound, although deeply depressing.
(edit in that "although")

Well, I bought Nurse Betty and saw it Friday night, and then I just got back from seeing In the Mood for Love. For me, In the Mood is going on my 2001 NY/LA list, but I figured I'd mention it in context of the 2000 list to make others happy.

I'm not sure Mood would make my 2000 top 10 anyway. I found it to be a tad too deliberate, although beautifully shot. The print was clean and clear too. Should make for some system eye candy at least. I enjoyed the story but I think it was simply unfolded too slowly.

I'm not knocking minimalist scripts or even a slower pace. In fact it sort of worked that way too. But in the end it felt too much like it was directed by a cinematographer instead of a storyteller. Screen chemistry between the leads was excellent.

As I say, I think Mood would linger just outside my top 10 if I were to include it in 2000.

Nurse Betty was a nice surprise. Well, not a surprise after hearing such strong praise here, but I never would have guessed it to be so good based on it's ad campaign. Freeman is just such a great actor and Zellweger showed why she got her Golden Globe. Her effort was terrific. I also just love Kinnear on the screen. He has a great star presence and can play the romantic lead so well, as in Sabrina or As Good As It Gets.

The script was also interesting and entertaining. I'm not sure if it cracks the top 10, I need to go look at my list and think about it. But it certainly was a contender at the very least.

Seth, I agree. Requiem should have been nominated for a Best Picture Oscar. Oh well,...

I just posted a comment thread on Girlfight. My Top Ten List is very much secure from this one.

Next Up: The House Of Mirth

~Edwin

Checked my mail and found American Psycho waiting for me. I'm still a bit numb from it but I'll try to comment on it..or maybe not. Spoilers abound But I will comment that Bale's performance, while over-the-top at times does fit and gives you the big picture of what is 'happening'..very convincing. His whole experience with others in a non-violent environment was surreal and misinterpreted by those he was communicating with or it was simply superficial and meaningless.. really good satire on 80s materialism.


Coming Soon
Dancer in the Dark (hopefully)

Edited 4/2/2001: Finally got to see Dancer In The Dark. I loved and hated this movie all at the same time. The musical numbers were very good, and Bjork gave an amazingly understated, yet powerfully raw performance. But at the same time I wanted to scream at the supporting cast for being more blind than Selma could ever be. I'm just not sure how to place this movie until I've had ample time to digest what I've seen. Suffice it to say that I don't plan on seeing it again anytime soon. And I mean that in the same way that I mean I wouldn't want to experience my grandfather's funeral another time.

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I'm just here to regulate funkiness.

John, if you'd like to suffer through something equally painful, just read the What Trier Needs... thread that Gary Tooze got going. I think Al Brown and I tussled extensively over several issues which you might have in mind. There is a lot of good discussion in that thread about what we are taking away from the film.

Actually, to clarify: my grandfather's funeral was not really a bad experience. The whole family gathered in one place, talking about all the happy times we shared. It just wasn't the best circumstance. It was depressing, yet at the same time we were glad his pain and suffering were over. My opinion of Dancer In The dark is that it's either a film I liked okay for what it tried to be, or an incredible film experience, and I just haven't yet had time to think it through.

And I've read Gary's thread, Seth. Best I can figure, what Mr. von Trier needs is some Advil, if he's tried to read that thread.

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I'm just here to regulate funkiness.

I'm working on a review of DANCER right now, but I won't be able to finish it until I've had a chance to re-review THE IDIOTS - fortunately, a region-free DVD from scarecrow.com is now on order!

DitD needs to be placed not only in the context of the history of cinema (artistically and technically), but also within the context of von Trier's early and utterly different work, as well as the other two films of the Golden Heart Trilogy, the Dogme-95 manifesto, and the freedom he learned by creating The Kingdom series. Hopefully, I'll be able to justify my opinion that LvT is the single most significant director working today and why I believe this film is both a landmark in the history of cinema and a guidepost toward the digital future of cinema. Well, you know... I'm gonna try anyway!

(We kinda got stuck on plot issues in that other thread.)

Finally, let me suggest that you watch it again, John. Maybe it's just me, but I find the 'rewatchability' factor of this movie to be surprisingly large. I've seen it 3 times now - and twice more for the commentaries - and I keep unearthing extraordinary new things. Having seen it before also provides some distance, allowing you to appreciate elements that don't come to the fore in that initial viewing (which, like you, also left me reeling, feeling pummeled and punchdrunk and unsure what to make of the whole damn thing).

BTW, Vincent Paterson's commentary is brilliant. It's the most insightful look into the making of this film on the whole disc.

I'm back. My son was born last Sunday so I probably won't be on much until I return to work.

Was a decision ever made on ITMFL? I can't face slogging through all the back threads.

Haven't made it to any 2001 films since Hannibal, but was able to catch a couple more 2000 ones.

Not One Less - A story concerning the education system in modern China from director Zhang Yimou that I found to be outstanding. In much the same way as modern Iranian films, it uses nonactors and the main roles are childern. The single-minded determination that only a child can muster along with the pure joy of learning and discovery were set against the grinding poverty of rural China that seems to be lost in a society of booming cities. I was also amused that the events in the conclusion followed the exact same pattern that they would in the West.

Yi Yi - I was floored by Edward Yang's lyrical examination of a middle class family in modern Taiwan. The film was broken up into multiple ongoing storylines, each of which I found intensely interesting. Clocking in at just about 3hrs, I could have easily stayed and watched more. The birth of love, a lifetime of regret, the choices we make, friendship, and honor are just a few of the things this rich film discusses.

This is my 2nd favorite film of the year, I will leave Requiem on top because of the visceral impact it had on me (during the conclusion my heart was actually racing all 3 times I saw it), and for that truly beautiful scene where

Spoiler:

Jared Leto calls Jennifer Connelly from prison

I still have not had time to watch my Dancer DVD. I very much want to for reasons I have mentioned many times previously. But I also want to be able to give it my undivided attention, and right now I can't. I don't have as high an opinion of Von Trier as you do Al, but I am a big fan of his work and am anxious to see anything he puts out. I look forward to your review.

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"It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen"

S&S Challenge: 72 ...28
DVD BEAVER

My DVD Collection

Brook, congrats on the baby. Just think, he has already been to one HTF national meet.

Jason and I have resolved that we will simply make note of 2 different versions. In this thread, we are going by NY/LA 1 week, so In the Mood goes to 2001.

BUT, people are allowed to make mention of any of these rogue titles for 2000, we just aren't considering them for totals, etc.

And in Jason's 2001 thread we will have BOTH lists, the PUBLIC RELEASE version and the NY/LA version. That way we still have conformity and members still get to respect internationally released films in the year they went public.

I've still got 2 weeks till Yi-Yi myself.

McDouble Post.

Brook! Welcome back! Congrats on 'lil Kennon and give my best to Shelley. Great to have you posting and I'm sure we will all understand if you're going to be posting less in the next while.

The decision we made on In The Mood For Love was put it wherever the heck you want under your own criteria, but under Seth's NY/LA thingy, if you include it here it won't be included for totals. Techinally, it's 2000 because it hit overseas at that time, but some of you guys want to stick with North American, or NY/LA 1 week consideration.

On the 2001 Film List now, I'm having two Top 10 lists: one offical, and one for Adjusted for North American release.

Al,

Can't wait to read your review of Dancer. And worry not, I'm with you all the way on it's awesomeness.

Anyway. Added A Time For Drunken Horses, which did not make my runner up list, but is a strong ***1/2 film, and is my Awesome Movie Of The Week. And worry not, it is a 2000 release across the world.

Jason

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AWESOME Movie Of The Week
jason-whyte@home.com
ICQ: 16733922
I Am Jack's DVD List

Brook,

Congrats on the new addition!

And thanks for the chuckle I got when you said you probably wouldn't be on the Forum very much until you return to work.

Rob

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"That suits me down to the ground."

I have updated my list on page two to include the amazing Dancer In The Dark and the powerful The Contender.

I'm sure more changes will be made when I finally catch up wih the films I have missed such as Requiem For A Dream, Before Night Falls, Shadow Of The Vampire, etc...

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Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus.