The WWE™

In an attempt to keep a long-term thread devoted to discussing the WWF (including, but not limited to, Raw is War, Smackdown, and all pay-per-views) here in the HTF, I'm forming this thread. Now onto business...

As a long time WWF viewer, I haven't been this pumped for each weekly show as I was ~two years ago when the McMahon/Helmsley regime was formed. It was great to see a heel group 'controlling' the matches and wrestlers and just generally screwing with everyone. I think having the nWo around is gonna be a blast. It's finally nice to see all the big-name wrestlers healthy at the same time. And it's just cool to see Hogan back in the WWF.

Onto Wrestlemania X8...

So far, I think X8 is shaping up well. That being said, I don't think I'd pay for a Jericho/Triple H main event. The Stephanie/Jericho angle was so very predictable that I was laughing out loud on Thursday night. Hopefully, they can pull off something enjoyable for the match (now Triple H/Austin, Triple H/Rock, even Triple H/Angle would be a great main event...not Jericho, but I digress). What makes me want to get X8 is the Rock/Hogan match. Like everyone's been saying: it's the dream match no one thought they'd ever see. And having The Rock conveniently 'hospitalized' will keep them out of each other's hair until all hell breaks loose on the 17th.

Other matches: Angle/Kane (meh.), APA/Billy & Chuck (meh.), Austin/Hall(?) (could be a great one), and Regal/Edge again (potential).

What I'd like to see:

• The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudleyz vs. ? in a TLC III match would be great!
• RVD vs. Tazz would bring some ECW flair
• Nash vs. Big Show - damn. just damn.

It'd be an awesome card. Taker/Flair just doesn't do it for me - I don't think it'll be an enjoyable match. And for god's sake get rid of Booker T! I can't stand that hack!

I just hope tonight's Raw can keep the ball rolling from last week...

mike.

btw, the best quote from No Way Out had to be Hogan saying "God bless Vince McMahon." Never thought I'd ever hear him say that!

mike.

Here is the RAW preview for tonight:

Mr. Perfect vs. Steve Austin
Hardy's vs. Billy and Chuck for the Tag Titles.
Jazz vs. Mighty Molly for the Women's Championship

---------------------------------

Now with the preview out of the way, Booker T in my opinion is very talented. The guy does have style, and at the same time can give those facial expressions that will just start to make me laugh.

In other WWF news, former WWF Light Heavyweight Champion and former ECW World Champion Jerry Lynn was released from the WWF three days ago when his contract ran out and was told there was no place for him. He showed up on a WWA PPV Sunday Night that took place in Las Vegas, NV. (1wrestling.com)

One other thing, I would love to see Jericho get a CLEAN win one of these days. It would really just place him on the map as a "True" champion.

I can't say that I share your lack of enthusiasm for a HHH/Jericho Title match, Mike.

Those two have always clicked and busted out good matches out of each other. Their first match back in April of 2000 on RAW when Jericho actually won the title for a second off of Triple H was a great match. And then their follow up "Last Man Standing" match at that year's PPV Fully Loaded was one of my favorite matches of the year.

Now, with the WWF title on the line, I can't wait to see them tear into each other.

I'm actually looking foward to the Rock/Hogan match even though Hogan is a horrible wrestler. It's just something I really want to see though.

I really think that the HHH/Stephanie angle is just a swerve.The WWF needs a GREAT heel and Trips just fits the bill.

What are the plans for Hall and Nash for Wrestlemania?It would be nice to see them in some tag team competition.It has been awhile since I've looked forward to RAW.Last weeks was very entertaining

But remember, that match in 4/2000 never existed, right?

The main problem with the Jericho/Triple H main is (in my opinion) the horrible job Jericho has done in being a heel. I just don't find his schtick enjoyable. Also, as Bill pointed out, he hasn't won a match 'legitimately' yet. It's always been either outside interference or his cheating. I liked the days when heel champs could win legit from time to time (Triple H at the Rumble & No Way Out circa 2000 come to mind). If they could've given him some legit wins, maybe my take would be different right now. I also don't believe he does a good job hangin' with the 'big boys'. Jericho makes a great Intercontinental champ, but not a WWF undisputed champ.

mike.

Mike,
I agree.Jericho's best moments in the WWF was as a underdog to Austin/HHH,intercontinental matches with Angle/Benoit,and as a verbal sparring partner with the Rock.

What?

Yes, the WWF has pissed me off on the way they've used Jericho. God knows why they were giving him frickin curtain-jerking WWF title matches against opponents like Edge on RAW, but I think the match at Wrestlemania will be tremendous.

Okay, I have a question that has bugged me (and a couple of my friends) for the last few weeks.

Before the WCW was bought by WWF, the WCW storylines were haphazardly written, and titles changed almost on a weekly basis.

I remember during one of those later shows that Chuck Palumbo actually won the WCW Heavyweight Championship.
But now that I check the title history websites, they don't seem to mention this historic win.
I'm pretty sure that he won it, but I can't remember how he lost.
So can anyone out there say why Chuck Palumbo isn't referred to as a 'Former WCW Heavyweight Champion'?

Booker T is very talented. I wish WWF would make better use of him. They have been inconsistent with his character.

Gui, I think Chuck Palumbo unofficially won the title; he had the title in his hands but it was later overturned or something. By the way, what is up with his hair?

Stephen, Hall will be facing Austin at Wrestlemania. As for Nash, I think he's been underutilized so far. I would like to see him destroy some cruiserweights (not like they are being used well) in an impromptu match.

Jericho is okay as a main eventer. I don't really like his mic and in-ring work.

~T

What has Hall done to deserve a match with Austin at WRESTLEMANIA?!

Wait, Austin vs The Big Alchy at Wrestlemania? Oh christ, so Austin is going to carry Scott Hall around the ring for 20min?

On the Subject of Booker T: I hate him, I hate his hair, I hate his costume, I hate his gloves, I hate his style, I hate his character. Put him on Jakked where he belongs! There are so many people like Tajiri that are stuck in the mid-card that have so much more wrestling talent. He's another product of the lame WCW machine, making people like Stone Cold Bill Goldberg and The Big Lazy into multimillion dollar stars, even though they had no actual talent for the buisness, and caused all kinds of problems backstage (OK, That was mostly Nash)

I agree that they need to push Tajiri or any of the cruiserweights more in the WWF. They also need to push Booker T more. He is a great talent and is being wasted in the WWF right now.

As for Booker T being created by WCW, so what? That doesn't mean he is any less talented. Goldberg was over because the fans loved him. Yes, he has the same look as Austin, but in terms of wrestling style, they were very different.

I agree. So what if Booker T was created by WCW? He and DDP deserve to have been treated better by WWF, as both guys can deliver at the main event level. Goldberg and Austin are extremely different. There were about two guys in WCW at that time who had that same look (Darsow and I believe one of the Texas Rednecks), but I never saw anyone refer to them as "Stone Cold." In fact, Goldberg had that look long before Austin became "Stone Cold."

Tajiri is a talented wrestler, but he should remain at the mid-card level. Wrestling talent alone doesn't make one a main eventer.

~T

I hope this isn't a thread killer but does anybody know about the condition of Hayabusa from the FMW(Japan)?I heard he suffered a serious neck(?)injury a couple of months back.

I could like Booker T if not for 2 things, the way he talks and the spin-a-rooni, what a ridiculous move.
I second the call for a Nash/Big Show match at wrestlemania.

Hall has gotta go

I like how the three of them ran from Stone Cold for half the show, but then all of a sudden we have to believe they are a threat to the whole WWF. Come on, there are enough guys in the WWF to take care of these 3 if we did not have to suspend belief for so long.

Doug

"What is the most idiotic catch phrase in wrestling history." No, there should not be a question mark at the end of that sentence, it was a statement. I guess it needs more punctuation...
"What, IS the most idiotic catch phrase in wrestling history."
Come on Stone Cold, please come up with something new, even the watch gimmick, just something else.

I love the What? catchphrase, though I do think fans are over-using it at live events. Reserve it for Stone Cold, Angle, and the McMahons and we'll be just fine. I'll admit that when Austin first started using it when he was a heel, it annoyed me, but when the fans started getting into it at the shows, it began to grow on me. I'm sure like most things, your tolerance may vary...

mike.

I think the HHH-Y2J main event will be great. The other matches that are shaping now, might have problems.

Kane-Angle should be fine.

Rock-Hogan ain't going to be good, Hogan in ring is too old and slow for a 20 minute PPV match.

Austin-Hall could be really disappointing, but hopefully Hall is in decent in-ring shape.

Taker-Flair will probably happen, but I doubt it can be very good.

APA-B&C needs 5 more TV shows to build it up.

Regal-RVD should be alright.

Nash needs a match and Big Show should be it. The last time they were in the ring together it wasn't pretty when Nash dropped him on his head with an aborted power bomb in WCW.

No womens title match yet, and there is alot of talent that will be unused. Could be some sort of 30-man hardcore title match I guess.

I will be shocked if Jericho doesn't win at Wrestlemania... Vince is out to prove he can get Jericho to the next level. The fact that everyone here thinks he sucks is exactly the reaction the WWF is looking for. The longer he keeps the belt, the more heat he gets. Personally, besides The Game, Jericho is the best wrestler in the WWF. I think the HHH/Jericho match will be the best one on the card. They will build up Austin/Hall and Rock/Hogan(God how bad will this match be???) so much that HHH/Jericho will steal the show. For the record it will be pathetic to see Hogan beat the Rock at Wrestlemania(Rock has never won at WM).

Give Jericho a break he is our generations Ric Flair.


dan

Rock won at both Wrestlemania 13 and at Wrestlemania 14, never in a main event though, and Michaels was our generations Flair. Heck, Flair was our generations Flair. Jericho is good, maybe great, but I'd take Benoit, Angle, Austin as better wrestlers, no question.

What?

Some people here think that because he is not that great of a wrestler/main eventer, not because he is generating good heel heat.

I think Hogan and Rock will deliver a good/great match. Hogan wrestled with a lot of intensity and passion in his last year in WCW; I just hope he is still in good shape after the time he has been out of wrestling.

Austin and Hall could end up being the best match. Hall has been doing an awesome job since he has returned to WWF. Hopefully, he is still good in the ring.

I don't care much about Undertaker and Flair. They need to build that match better, the Double A segment wasn't enough. At the Royal Rumble, Flair had the best match of the event with McMahon, so there's a possibility that this match could be good. I think they should go with the same type of match that Flair had with Vader at Starrcade.

~T

Somewhat off-topic: does anyone know what happened to Nidia(Tough Enough womens winner)?

You have to remember. Hogan has NEVER been a good wrestler. Why do you think his finish is a legdrop? The Rock has some real skill in the ring. His psychology is great, and he knows how to put together an exciting match, even with his seemingly limited repitoire of moves. Hulk does the Superman, Big Boot, Legdrop, and that's about it. He had a great schtick in the 80s, but again, no real skill to back it up. The difference between Hogan and the Rock is that if you took away the mic, Rock could still hold his own in the ring. With Hogan, he'd just be laughed out of the stadium

I'd be very surprised to see just the same-old Hogan nonsense at Wrestlemania. Sure the guy's 48, but I'm sure the powers that be in the WWF realize he just can't match up with what the Rock can do physically in the ring. Hopefully, he'll have some new moves in The Showcase of the Immortals. Otherwise he'll pull Rocky down to his level, and then a good match there will not be. Hulk's gotta come up to the Rock's level to make it interesting. (Now if Hogan was facing someone with real wrestling skills (i.e. Kurt Angle) the match would be a joke)

Okay, I just re-watched Wrestlemania III the other day and boy were some of the matches dull! I remember loving this event as a kid but comparing every aspect of it (the majority of matches/production values) it simply pales in comparison to what we've been spoiled with today. Especially the Hogan/Andre main event. I know Andre wasn't in the greatest physical health at this time, but man that match was pretty dull! At the time, the actual wrestling portion of it was below the rest of the competition out there (the Savage/Steamboat match is still great), but I could still see enjoying it at the time. What really sold the match was the months and months of build up behind it. Not like today, where there are only a couple weeks to build up matches. Going that route really hypes the event and fans think they're getting something really special. In the current state, having ppv's every month and fast title changes, it's hard to feel you're seeing something really special with a lot of history behind it. I find myself simply wanting to see the good technical matches with good wrestlers (Angle/Benoit) or some sort of gimmick match to make it interesting (TLC, Hell in a Cell, Iron Man, Fatal Four Way). The standard one on one matches are hard-pressed to hold my interest any more. There's a lack of build up. There's a lack of history.

Here's an idea: build up the main events for Wrestlemania over an extended period of time. Keep the main-eventers out of each other's hair for the most part. Stay away from the 'six-man tag team' gimmicks on Raw. Keep the heat going via interference and mic skills. Have one main-eventer a week not directly involving the same people who'll be facing each other in Wrestlemania. Give the remainder of the TV time to undercard matchups and wrestlers with real skill. It'll give something interesting to see every week without repeating the same old matches week in week out and it will give massive build-up and hype to the ppv. That way when fans shell out $40, they will be seeing something very special; not just an expanded episode of Raw.

the guy who'll still be getting Wrestlemania 'cause it'll still be fantastic,

mike.

I'll be at Wrestlemania on March 17th with three friends, although we'll be sitting in the nosebleeds. Regardless, the tickets were incredibly hard to come by, considering how swamped Ticketmaster was the day the tickets went on sale. I bought them maybe 8 minutes after they went live, and everything but the upper-deck of Skydome was already sold out.

I think Wrestlemania is going to be amazing, even if the matches suck. I don't know how many of you have been to Skydome, but it's pretty damn big, and I can see them retracting the roof (weather permitting) sometime in the middle of the event... just to have that added effect. The sheer number of people, and the energy level in the stadium is going to be through the roof.

I'm 26 now, and I'll admit that wrestling has not held the same interest for me that it did a couple of years ago. Regardless, I was at both Raw & Smackdown when it was in Toronto last year, I'm pretty excited to be going to Wrestlemania. I'm going to feel like a kid again.

I'll be taking lots of pictures.

Moe.

Nidia was in the audience on Smackdown when Maven won the hardcore title, and she made an appearance several weeks ago at WWF NY.



As opposed to someone like Angle or Malenko, I wouldn't call Hogan a good wrestler. I would, however, call him a good performer. Hogan has demonstrated that he can wrestle, but I believe he chooses not to perform a variety of moves (same goes for Goldberg). During the New Blood angle, Hogan powerbombed Kidman, which is something I had never seen him do. I doubt he had just learned that move. In the Scott Hall interview on WWF.com, it mentioned how someone gave advice to Hall years ago saying that Hall should keep the moves that received a pop and throw away the others. I think that's sound advice in trying to become successful in the business. What you say about Rock with his limited set of moves in the ring, I also feel about Hogan.

~T

1. I'm pretty sure that Hogan has never shown a variety of moves in the past 20 years.

2. A "powerbomb" isn't that difficult a move, no matter what Nash's incompetence would have you believe.

3. Hogan has less moves than Scott Hall AFTER he threw most of them away!?! Score one for The Bad Guy.

4. Come PPV time, while Rocky can brawl, he also more than doubles his workrate when facing someone who can really wrestle. (I'm specifically thinking of his matches with Angle and Triple H here; while I have enjoyed their matches on free TV, I never saw him go against Jericho on PPV.)

5. Yes, Angle does rule all.


Aaron Thomas
Support OAR - Golddust videos in anamorphic widescreen.

Here's an aside:

Who's the best at getting the most heat as a heel, and at the same time, the biggest pops as a face? Personally, I have to give the nod to Triple H, though Angle is right at his heels (yes, pun intended ). Any other thoughts current or historical?