Which would you suggest and why? Samsung vs Panny Plasma's

I am in the hunt for a new plasma.  I currently have an old 25" Toshiba CRT.  I have narrowed my choice to three:  
Samsung B860
Samsung B650
Panasonic V10

Out of the three, which would you choose and why?  Take into consideration that the difference in price between the Sammys is around $540 and the Panny is around $960 more than the Sam B650.  

Lastly, is there any inkling that I should wait until next year?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Todd

I, personally, don't recommend a plasma to anyone.............ever.
But recommending one of the two brands, I'd go with the Sammy. Samsung and Sony are two of the best at handling non HD channels. So, if you're going to be watching any SD channels, I say go with the Sammy. Just my $.02.

I have been contemplating this too for a while now.  Just dropped into my local BestBuy and was told that the Samsung 650 Plasma has been discontinued but does not know the reason.  He thought it was because next year's Samsung plasma's are coming out...

Read in another forum that Amazon has discontinued selling the Samsung B860 plasma due to the many returns of this product but I checked today and they do still sell it so that's not true.

All in all, I have read (and heard, literally) that the samsung models 650 and 860 have an audible "buzz" to them.  It was evident in the showroom I visited.  Although it was low, I do believe that I would hear it during silent scenes when watching movies.  not 100% though.

I looked at the Panasonic 50in G15 side by side next to both the 50in B650 and 50in B860 in the showroom and have to admit the Picture on the Panny was better.  I did play with the settings on them all to get them close to what I'm used to watching.

I also watched a good portion of transformers on the 50in V10 in Magnolia's sound suite and the picture quality was amazing!

my $.02....   if you got the cash, drop it on the panny V10.

 Ed,

No plasma?  Why?  The video looks much better than LCD's.

johnnyutah,

I just moved to WV and the closest stores that carry anything is around 86 miles from here.  So, all I have to go on until I drive out there is what I find online.  I do find it curious that Best Buy has no Samsung B860 or B650 in stores or in their warehouse (just got off the phone with Best Buy about that)  So, your thoughts that they are discontinued seems to be correct but not confirmed.  While the reviews of the Panny say that it is the best, I was curious to what others would have to say.  It would have been nice to put that $500 to $1,000 on some other gear if I got one of the Sammys.  As it looks right now, I might end up with the Panny.  Thanks for the info.

I can't stand the reflecting glass screen. I've had to live with it my whole life, with the old CRTs, because we had no choice. Now we do have a choice, and I refuse to see the lamp, kitchen light, and me, reflected in the screen. Now, most of the LCDs and LED tvs are getting just as bad, with the glossy screens they have. I think they do that so it looks like darker blacks and whiter whites, but it just isn't worth it to me. My DLP is just fine with me.............

Plasmas also put out a lot of heat, into the room. That's fine in winter, but in summer, it's unacceptable. The glass screen also makes it pretty heavy. That's no real biggie, until I would need to move it. I have a bad back.

The video on an LED looks as good as any plasma I've seen, but I don't like the reflective screens on them either. I know everyone loves plasmas, but I just don't. I've put up with CRTs reflecting for almost 60 yrs., and that's enough................. To each his own.

in all critical viewing environments plasma is the technology of choice (vs LCD panels).

Anytime Todd!  I've been dealing with your exact dilema so i know how frustrating these things can be.  And not being close to a showroom is tough so you need to rely on as much info as possible. Which there is plenty online! 

Ed has a good point about the reflective screen, but plasma's are trying to combat this issue with lower gloss fronts.  I noticed the Panny (G15) had a bit less reflection in the showroom when compared right next to both of those Samsungs.

The Panny V10 did have a slightly better picture than the Panny G15.  I could'nt see them side by side though so it wasn't an A /B comparison.

My viewing environment is my basement Home Theater so it is a lighting controlled environment.  (Plus for the plasma.)  I do not game and primarily want a superb picture for movies, sports and occasionally normel tv programming.  (all Pluses for the plasma).  I own a LCD now and can't get over the artificial "120hz" 3-D look i get when the 120hz anti-blurring and dejuddering are on so I rarely use that feature.  The lcd is lightweight, which is good because I have it mounted on my wall but I 'm sure the mount can handle another 25lbs on it from the plasma.

If you're looking to save some cash, consider the G15 model...   same as the G10 but it has less silver on the bottom and I believe the top is less bulky looking.  The guts are the same which would lead me to belive the picture is the same too.  I can get it out here in Oregon for a little more than $1000... including a free Panasonic Blu-ray D60.  Not sure about WV.

Best of luck!

if looking at the Panasonic line strongly consider only the models that are THX certified.

On a related note...I calibrated another Sammy 50?850 today....it looked awefully nice!!

Todd and Johnny/Riley (and anyone else interested),

Not sure if you guys understood Gregg's recommendation for the Sammy's (or a Panny THX model) since he wasn't explicit about it here.  But if I understand correctly, Gregg's recommendation (for the Sammy's in this case) is based on the fact(?) that the Sammy's are generally designed for easier/better calibration than the Panny's (at least for the lower-end-to-mid-tier models).  My own year-old Sammy DLP -- same one as Ed's -- has a ton of useful settings (that can be mapped to indivdual inputs and modes) just in the regular user menus w/out needing to go into the old (hidden) service mode/menu, and I'd expect something similar for their plasmas.

Also, while you may find the Panny's to look a bit better at various showroom floors (due to whatever reasons, including calibration/presentation biases), that's probably not the best way to compare and judge them.

One thing though.  Last I read (when I was still shopping for a display and considered plasmas about a year ago), the Panny's still had somewhat deeper blacks than the Sammy's although the Sammy's may have had more accurate colors (after calibration).

Hope that helps...

_Man_
 

hi guys

Man...thanks!!!

I drove all the way out to Best Buy last night to pull the trigger on the Samsung plasma.  I printed out a price qutoe from Vann's to see if they would match.  Best Buy carried the B850 but not the B860, (B860 is only carried in the stores that has Magnolia).  The quote I had was for the B860 but was willing to take the B850 instead.  The B860 would be more expensive thus saving the company some money than the B850 but alas they would not match the price.  So, I left.    

Question:  After johnnyutah wrote about the G10 series, I looked into that one but decided on the Samsung due to one feature.  Can you tell me if I would even notice this feature or not?  It is the 1080p/24.  Reviews say that the G10 create problems with this feature as it does not do 96hz refresh, only 48hz thus creating noticeable flicker.  The Samsung has absolutely no problems with this feature and does it automatically in the B850 series and manually in the B860 series.  From what I have read, this feature deals mainly with video from Blu-ray players.  Is this correct and am I putting too much emphasis on this one feature?

Thanks again,
Todd

I'm have been wondering the same thing.  This feature along with the "Cinema Smooth" feature on the Samsung should be only available when a blu-ray or other such device is plugged into it.  I have been doing my fair share of research online and feeli like i am driving both myself and my wife crazy.  There are reviews positively speaking in favor of these features and reviews that negatively review them.  CNET seems to like the 850 better because they like the automatic feature of Cinema Smooth...  however they don't like the fact that it seems to "recalibrate the picture setting... "darker blacks" I think they say.

They did seem to notice the flicker on the Panny's and seemed to rate it as unbearable to watch so reviewed it without and gave it really high marks for picture quality with it off...  Then you read user reviews that state they do not even notice the flicker except for when gaming and they have a white menu screen on.

I'm not sure why Best Buy wouldn't match that price, that seems lame.  I'm on the West Coast and all the Best Buy commercials on tv out here talk about how they will match competitor's price or even beat it.  Call them out on that...  that's BS and I can't imagine it is a regional thing!  The 50in 860 is going for about $1399 out here at our local VideoOnly stores.

At some point, you're just going to have to pull the trigger on one of them..  remebering at most places you have 30 days to try it out and return with "no questions asked".  Otherwise, a few more months will go by and your wife will be pissed cause the yard looks like crap and the trash hasn't been taking out for weeks.  ;)

Cheers!

Oh yeah and I should also mention, I watched some of a blu-ray of the 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean on a 58in G15 panny and went through the menu selections and couldn't figure out how to turn on the 48hz rate...  And was watching a blue-ray on the 58in 860 and couldn't figure out how (or even see) to turn on the "cinema smooth" option...

It was greayed out on the Panny and it wasn't even in any of the menu choices for the Sammy!  Both movies looked great!

sorry to throw another wrench in you're decision making!  ;)

If the feature only works for 1080p/24 video, then the display probably disables the option so you can't choose it unless you're feeding it w/ a 1080p/24 signal.  You'll probably need to change the output setting at the source device, eg. BD player, to 1080p/24 for that -- also, remember that 1080p/24 usually only applies to film sourced material, not video sourced content.

RE: the Sammy B860 pricing, why not just buy it from Vanns?  Vanns seems like a fairly reputable online dealer and has been around for a long time.  I bought my old Denon SD2910 DVD/SACD/DVD-A player from them -- and would probably have bought my Sammy DLP RPTV from them too, if the timing/pricing was right when I shopped.

_Man_

Not mentioned in this thread but worth looking at in my opinion is the Panasonic Plasma TC-PxxG10 line.  I recently purchased the 54 inch model to replace my older but still excellent performing Panasonic 42 inch plasma and have been thoroughly impressed with the picture quality.  Colors are vibrant and black levels are spot on.  This display also features the THX viewing mode which admittedly is slightly to dim to enjoy normal TV viewing under bright lighting conditions.  Hoewver, THX mode looks amazing when paired with a Blu ray in a darkened room.   

At around $1600.00 this is a very good Plasma display.

Greg

solid point Greg.

MAN - Thanks for the info.  I started a thread in the Audio/Video sources to discuss the 1080/24p signal and what the heck it is and means.  I'm hoping to get some clarification on this as to whether it is really a necessary feature or not as I haven't a clue.

cheers!

You don't need 1080/24p playback if you're not bothered by (or even ever notice) the motion judder that occurs due to the 3:2 pulldown needed to translate typical film source's 24fps frame rate to most HD displays' 60fps frame rate.

Personally, I only ever notice the judder on certain smooth, non-horizontal, panning sequences (and stuff like rolling end credits).  It's rarely distracting enough to me to be a real issue.  Of course, if all else are equal, I'd want a proper implementation of the feature (to properly display 1080/24p at a refresh rate >=72hz, not merely support it by reversing the pulldown back to the display's native 60hz refresh rate like many displays do, eg. many older(?) Sammy's, including my DLP).

If the refresh rate is rather low like 48hz for that Panny plasma, then yeah, you might get distracted by flicker.

_Man_

thanks MAN!  great explanation both here and in the other thread I started about the subject.  I doubt if I'll even notice and will probably just keep it engaged at the 60hz and let the 2:3 pull down works its job.

Todd - I bought the Panny 50in G15 plasma last night...  Holy Crap am I a happy man!  The picture is frickin' amazing now that it's set up in my basement and on the wall.  The picture is clear, crisp and the aspects of the plasma (600hz, faster response rate) have cleared up alot of the by products of my crappy Comcast HD signal - blur, halo effect people and objects - that my LCD noticably showed.

So happy the search ifs finally over and I pulled the trigger.  Best of luck!

Congrats on the fine new display, Johnny/Riley!

BTW, since you've got it now, why not give its 1080/24p feature a try and see if you'll actually like it (and not be distracted by flicker due to the 48Hz refresh rate)?  I know I would give it a try w/ some BDs, if I were in your shoes.

_Man_

johnnyutah,

Glad you got one.  Let me know, as _Man_ was asking, if you notice anything about the 1080p/24.  I'm still torn between the two.

_Man_,

I worked as an audio/video consultant years ago and I never appreciated people who would come in, test, learn, try it out, etc. then go home and buy it online.  I like to support the local B&M stores, within reason.  So, while Vann's had the B860 at $1,399, Best Buy should have matched that even on the B850 model.  We'll see.  See if johnnyutah notices anything about the 1080p/24 feature and I might lean that way as I believe that the Panny has the slightly better picture quality when I visited the store.  But I do appreciate your input and keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Todd 

Aaaah...  Understood.  Yes, I actually also feel it's good to give the business to a quality B&M shop if/when one has provided the quality help/support that deserves the business.  How much more I'm willing to pay depends on the quality of the support/service, etc. of course.  I did just that w/ my previous RPTV purchase (at BB and even bought their service plan for it), but for my last one (the Sammy DLP), I ended up just going w/ Crutchfield.

And actually, the reality has been that I've been helped waaaaay more by quality online resources (and other users' input) than by a superstore chain like BB.  If anything, I should be spending the $$$ premium on a quality ISF tech instead me thinks  -- I really considered it for my previous RPTV to see if I could extend its life for a few more years, but decided I'd be better off overall just getting the new DLP (at the then great price).

Happy shopping!

_Man_

sorry for the delay in response here...  been on vacation.

I am waiting for some HDMI cables from Monoprice to show up in the next few days to test the Blu-ray / Flicker effect.  I have some old dvd's lying around and watched them with my component cable hooked up and have not been able to notice a flickering or even able to tell how I change it from 60hz to 48hz.  The picture quality is still superb!  Have some blu-ray coming in from netflix too that will help with this test.  Will continue to post updates if I find anything out...  but since i've had this tv, I have no negative remarks about it.  It has exceeded ALL my expectations in Sports, TV and movies.  Sound isn't shabby either as most people seem to complain about with the G10 series.  Maybe the G15 doesn't have the same audio components, i'm not sure.

cheers,
Riley

I've also heard that some of the Sammy models are being discontinued, including the 650 but haven't seen any "official" news on it. I've currently trying to decide between the Sammy 650 and the Panny G10 but the discontinuation rumors have me a little worried especially if it's due to a deficiency in the model. Being this close to Black Friday though I find it hard to believe that Samsung would phase out these models unless they plan on waiting until after the big day to make an official announcement.

Do they ever actually announce that models are discontinued?  Seemed like they didn't even bother to announce that they were getting out of the DLP RPTV market back early this year.  Models gradually disappeared from their website -- and in the case of the DLPs, not replaced w/ new ones.  Part of the reason people believed they were really getting out of the DLP market was that they seemed to be clearing out inventory particularly thru a few different primarily online dealers, instead of the major B&M chains, at great clearance prices (on top of the then SuperBowl rebate).

I'm guessing if you start seeing the displays disappear from the major B&M chains combined w/ steeper discounts online, you're probably seeing the end of their product lifecycle just before they're discontinued.  At least you don't have to worry (yet?) that they're getting out of the plasma market too like they did w/ DLP...

_Man_