SVS or DIY Subwoofer?

Hi all, I'm contemplating on either going with a SVS cylindrical sub or trying a DIY sub.  I come from a strong background of car audio and have the skills and tools to build a box and such.  I want the most bass for the money like everyone else, my budget will be around $600. 

I have read up quite a bit on this process and am wondering if I can get away with using car subwoofers, I can get a good deal on some JL audio's and probably run two or four 10's depending on the amp I need.  Where can I find an amp that I need to run such a setup?  I'd prefer to find one that has a crossover and such built in.  If this isn't recommended, I'm open to suggestions. 

The size of the box isn't a huge issue, just going for sound.  I will use it for movies and music. 

There is no such thing as a 'car sub'.  There are some subs that have parameters that sometimes perform better in the car then in the home.  The majority of the time performance is enclosure dependent. 

Even getting JL at wholesale prices there are better alternatives from smaller companies that don't spend the millions on marketing like JL does.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'crossover and such built in'.  Subs like SVS that have a built in amp don't use that amp's crossover.  So really it is whether or not you want an amp built in the enclosure.  You can get more power for your money by using an external pro amp.

If the box isn't an issue then a the new Exodus audio 18" sub in a 12 cubic foot enclosure powered by a Behringer EP-2500 will probably put you right at the limit of your budget.  As the discussion progresses, we can narrow down the design a little more.

Ok Robert, you definitely have my attention.  Not saying your recommendation is a bit extreme but instead of an 18", couldn't I run two 12's instead and be more profitable?  Unless you're looking at quality to price then I completely understand. 

Also, that sub says it's capable of 1500 watts, I couldn't tell if that was RMS, peak or what.  This is something I would like to look into a little more.  As for the box, what material do you recommend, I'm used to jive ol' particle board or OSB with some carpet or vinyl.  I don't want a cabinet maker to come make one but a buddy of mine does do that kind of work.  If I was going to make a 12 cubic ft box (BTW, the website said 6-10 cubic ft) I wouldn't mind making it look like an end table or coffee table so it blends in a little bit. 

Also, the Behringer amp, how would that be run, bridged or not.  The sub said the coils are in series and with a 3 1/2 ohm load I would be pushing plenty of power to it correct, 2400 watts I believe? 

Sorry my ohms to watts are a little rusty, I've been out of the car bit for 10 years now. 

It is usually cheaper to go with a single, large driver than two smaller drivers unless you have size constraints.  Maybe your enclosure can only be 12" wide but no limit on height, then four 10's would be a great choice.  You would have the same surface area as an 18" sub in a box that is impossible to mount an 18" driver in.

Ignore wattage ratings on subs when using them for home theater.  99.9% of the time you run out of excursion well before you hit the thermal ratings.  And that's all it is, thermal ratings.  How much power a sub can take before the voice coil or former starts to fail.  To determine the RMS, they use a 1,000hz tone.  That barely moves the driver while still loading with with wattage.  Basically, RMS ratings tell you nothing on how a sub will perform.

I use MDF.  It's particle board with smaller particles.  Where OSB is wood chips, particle board is saw dust, MDF is a fine powder that is compressed.  It is very uniform in density and mills well.  It is messy and you shouldn't breathe the dust when sawing or routing.  The best material is 13 layer, birch plywood but that is expensive and not easy to find.

I've seen some great end-table designs if you want it to look like furniture.  Others just go with a black box.  No matter what, a properly built enclosure will be stable enough to set your drink on it and it will not vibrate off.

Bridging the Behringer amp into a 4 ohm load will give you about 1,600w at 20hz.  That's more than enough for most people.  I have my EP-2500 running in stereo into a 2 ohm load.  I also did a fan swap to a quieter model since my amp is in the theater room.

I just did a little more research on the subs and was looking at the Exodus Tempest-X 15 and the Shiva-X 12 which are about half the price of the 18" or is that 18" just a beast cuz I'm not familiar with all the specs, as for excursion and such.  The 15" says it creates 1.3 or so dbs lower than the 18", in this case would it be more beneficial going with two woofers?

I do see what you are saying about the woofer area and the 18" would still create more area than two 12"s and two 15" is about 25% more but roughly the same price.  As for the amp option, I'll take your word on that for bang for the buck but would a lower model with sufficient power for the 12"s or 15"s work just well also, just trying not to stretch my budget too far. 

Right now I have an older 12" Cerwin Vega 300 watt sub, it sounds good for movies but doesn't produce squat for low range.  So anything I do will definitely be an upgrade. 
Edited by SCcobra4me - 10/19/09 at 3:29pm

Any of those Exodus subs are great.  The larger the driver, the larger the required enclosure.  Dual Tempest-X2's in sealed enclosures would give you the best combination of sound quality, output and deep bass.  If you go with ported enclosures you need to budget for a subsonic filter.  That's about $70 added to your equipment list.

I currently run dual 15's in small, sealed enclosures with an EP-2500 powering them and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer EQing them almost ruler flat to 17hz.  In my 18x25 room they are complete overkill.  I can shake the entire house.

Like I said, I'm used to car audio and I know that ported boxes generally are a little larger and hit deeper, is that the same case I'm assuming with home audio.  If so, I would go that route I'm sure and get the filter, I may start with one 15" and add another down the road but stick with the Behringer amp for power. 

Would I also need the EQ or be fine without......for now.  Not sure how crazy I'll get in the future.  But i do appreciate all the info, you've been very helpful, thanks.

I just looked into IB enclosures which I could do because the backside of my tv wall is storage but it says you'd need more woofers to create the same audio level as a ported or sealed box so I believe that route is out of the question.

Edited by SCcobra4me - 10/19/09 at 9:49pm

It's the same in home theater as it is in cars because it is just physics.  Larger enclosures are more efficient - ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-a.php#HOFFMAN . 

The SSF is included in this - http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=B-1

You can measure your sub's in-room response with an SPL meter and test tones.  I posted instructions on how to do it a few weeks ago.  I even created the appropriate sine waves to do this and I'll let you download them if you decide to get an SPL meter.

IB's are the best route.  You could go with 4 of the DPL-15's - http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=684.  Fi Car Audio also has IB drivers - https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154adda9e2d9951/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0050_IB3/product_overview.shopscript.
So does AE Speakers - http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=8.
If you can find them, four of the old Cerwin Vega V-Maxx subs with the orange surround (not the new models) would be great.  I was an idiot and missed getting 16 of them for about $75 each.  That would have been a great sub system.

 

After further review, when I can I will go with the Exodus Shiva-X 12" and the Behringer EP2500 amp.  My new question is down the road I may go what I consider a little nuts and end up with 4 12"s, will that amp push them all or keep up or should I go with the EP4000. 

The EP4000 and EP2500 are the same amp internally.  Behringer just stretched the truth about the peak power of the 4000.  Compare the RMS power.  Other sites have also posted internal pictures of both amps and they are identical.  Buy the one that is cheapest.  I think the current best price is from a site called BJ Photo or something close to that.

You asked in a PM about wiring.  The Shiva-X is 3.6 ohms of DC resistance.  That is 4 ohms nominal.  Wire up the sub to one channel of the amp.  If you get a second Shiva-X, then wire up the new sub to the other channel of the amp.  If you add additional subs, then we can re-visit the wiring then.

The 6.35cf design you have chosen looks great.

If you really plan on going with multiple subs in the future, get 2 Shiva-X's now.  Since the X2's are out, you won't be able to match the X's when Kevin sells out of them.  For a few years I bought drivers whenever there was a good deal.  I'm overloaded right now with about 25 subs ranging in size from 8" to 18".

This is all your fault Robert_J, now I've decided to go with the Tempest-X2 15"s and get two of them.  Should be perfect with the EP2500 seeing how they need 1000 watts a piece.  My wife will probably kick my ass and wonder where I got these crazy ideas, I'm blaming it on you, lol.  Thanks once again for all your help, I will let you know when I get the equiptment for future box design. 

Possibly Robert is referring to B&H Photo/Video, a massive supply house in Manhattan for the Behringer.  Zzounds usually seems to have very low prices on Behringer.

BTW Ryan, you are not alone.  Robert has me wanting to make 1 if not 2 cylinder subs, probably 15", next year.  Most likely mine will be sealed, with dimensions yet to be determined.

After further review and budget compromise, I called up DIYcable.com today and the person I talked to said I would need a subsonic filter which the Behringer does not offer.  He recommended the Dayton Audio HPSA1000 with one 15" Tempest X-2 for my budget.  Hopefully in two or three weeks I will be ordering those pieces.  I'm going to go with a slotted ported box that's 5.1 cubic ft.

In the future if I need more, I'll build another one just like it. 

See post #8 where I link to an SSF for $70.  I did the math for you in your PM.  But it's your call on the equipment.

Well the Exodus Tempest X-2 is on the way, time to go get some MDF board.  I'm going with an end table sub, I will put up a new thread on the build process as I get to that point. 

Ryan:  Please put a link to the new thread here (in this thread) when you get it going.  I'd like to lurk and see what your experience is like.

Well the beast has arrived, running to get some MDF as we speak. 

"Beast" is accurate, Ryan!