A few words about...™ The Wizard of Oz -- in Blu-ray

My bad.   You're right, Tony.  I went back a bit too far and spotted the wrong (also potentially troll) post.  Guess it's really no big deal either way since I speculated incorrectly about Dave's question post anyhow -- and it really has no bearing now. 

Thanks for the correction though -- and my apologies to the mods for suggesting they might've edited the posts.

_Man_

So, if you are correct and the left side doesn't move but the right side does, are we still going with the stated opinions that this was how it was originally, and if so, how did they manage to do that in 1939?

 I don't see how anybody could say that that's the way it was originally, since it doesn't seem to be on the 2005 DVD edition. It must be some sort of new digital defect- albeit a minor one.

Has anyone said whether it's on the 2009 DVD, in addition to the blu-ray?
Edited by MielR - 10/17/09 at 4:22pm

Robert Harris stated in this thread that it appears to him that this was from the second pass of the optical and that we are seeing what has always been on the negatives.

It's a perfectly reasonable explanation- I just don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any evidence of it on the '05 DVD (at least none that I could see). 

I guess we're back to that argument- are the '09 editions so much clearer that that they're just revealing stuff we didn't see on the '05 DVD?

That's what people are saying. I can see something on the 05 version if I watch it on my pc. But I'm not sure if that glitch is caused by my pc...just seems kinda strange it happens in the same spot. The reason the right side of the frame doesn't have a glitch could be because the special effect compositing may have taken place only on the left, leaving the right side with one exposure.

I still don't really see it, but now I know what section of the movie to look for it in.  Could it be this is a 2:3 pulldown issue that's only seen on bluray display devices that don't handle 1080p at 24 fps?

The truly hilarious thing is that if this is an original mistake, and WB were to fix it on the next release (RedRay?) in ten years or so, the same person who bitched about this mistake being 'added' would bitch about WB 'removing' it. :-p

If you are referring to me, I'm not "bitching." I'm concerned that if it was not originally there, then it should be fixed. You know, I know it's not popular nowadays, but some people actually care about things they really love. Also, this has nothing to do with the player, because the same thing happened at the Hi Def Event at the theatre, and on the TBS HD broadcast (which I'm not sure utilizes the new restoration...if it doesn't, then it's almost a 100% given that it was a part of the negative.)

Edited by Eric Scott Richard - 10/17/09 at 6:54pm

BTW- there's a lengthy review of the OZ Blu-ray in the current issue of Sound+Vision magazine. The reviewer addresses the grain issue in some depth, so anyone who's interested in that subject should definitely check it out.

Quote:
Edited by MielR - 10/17/09 at 8:31pm

Thanks for posting that, Tony.  VERY strange.  Must have been some sort of digital glitch somewhere in the chain.  Fortunately, it's not glaringly obvious.  And you're right, it's not on any previous DVD edition.

I never bought the '05 version, but I have the previous DVD versions prior to that.  I examined them frame by frame, and the glitch is not there.  Perhaps some damage happened to that frame between then and 2005.

I wish we could ask someone like Ned Price who actually supervised or worked on the new restoration. The weird thing is that it also did it on the TBS HD version last week. If that version wasn't taken from the new master, then it was always like this and is just now seen.

I know I'm late in the game, but I finally got The Wizard of Oz blu-ray today.  A friend of mine who works at Warner's got me a copy with his employee discount for $36, shipped.  But it took almost three weeks to arrive from the time he ordred it.

Not to repeat what others have said, but it really is like a veil has been lifted off the film, isn't it?  This is their, what, fourth or fifth attempt at restoring the film using the three-strip elements, and they finally got the brightness and contrast perfect.  It's like you can see, unobstructed, all the way to the back of the sets for the first time.  It's funny, the thing that really stands out to me is that I notice the large backdrop paintings, which I never have in the past; nuances of color in them that I've never seen before.  And I think the color is far more consient than it's ever been before.  (But, boy, is the mesh on the Lion's lace-front wig ever noticeable in his closeups!)

After (finally) seeing this, I am so pumped for "Gone With the Wind."

Just noticed something else, which really has nothing to do with the new transfer... During "Off to See the Wizard," after they meet the lion, someone walks in front of a light in the background, or a light is turned quickly off and back on.  It's right on the words, "whiz there was," right before they cut to them from the back with the Lion's tail swinging back and forth, on the left side of the screen, at 52:59.  Never noticed that before.

I contacted WB about the possible mistake. Waiting to hear back from them. This was a frame by frame restoration, so every frame must've been important....well, that should remain true now that there was a mistake.
Edited by Eric Scott Richard - 10/28/09 at 11:34pm

Very classy response, Dave. And I agree, there's always something to learn around here.

As an example, FWIW, widescreen format did not originate in the '50s as is commonly believed (though it's true that it wasn't a success until the '50s.) In fact, there was some pursuit of widescreen aspect ratios shortly after motion pictures were invented in the 19th century (!!), and then again in the 1920s and the early 1930s; and there's even Abel Gance's flirtation with the three-screen Polyvision (Cinerama-like) format in "Napoleon" in 1927.

This generation of home video gives us an unprecedented ability to see classic films as they were originally intended (or better than originally intended, for good or ill.) "Oz" in HD is a superior example of that. For those of us who first went to Oz in front of a black-and-white TV during those initial telecasts in the 1950s, this new Blu-ray disc is a miracle.

You know, I hate to say it, but would it be too much for them to have digitally removed that HUGE hair at the bottom of the frame at 1:39:28.  It stays in there for nearly the whole scene and takes up about 10% of the screen vertically.  I mean, really... they couldn't have digitally removed that?

my guess is that rather than time/wear related damage, the hair is printed in the original negative because the hair was in the gate when it was shot.  so the filmmakers decided to keep that take in the final picture lock despite the shot having a bad gate.  Then, continuing guessing along this line, the restorationists decided to keep the flaw in there, which I think is consistent, but sort of obtusely taking things to extremes. 

Well, I finally watched my blu-ray of this beloved title last night with my daughter.

As we know, it's one of the very best films ever made...

A few thoughts.

First, I saw immediately the issue that Eric mentioned with the jump in the early scene where Glinda is heading out in her bubble. I didn't need to pause or go back or do slo-mo, and I wasn't even looking for it. Anyway, it's there, as we know. Not a big deal, but I don't recall it being on the earlier dvd, but could be wrong about that.

Overall, however, this blu is so wonderful.  It's just amazing. There are so many little details I hadn't seen before. And it was definitely better than the theater presentation of a month or so ago.

A few things I noticed....Garland's beautifully freckled complexion in the scene with the scarcrow, the circle pattern at the knuckles of the hand for the Tin Man, the patterns on people's clothing, etc., etc.. Throughout I was noticing things that the costume designers, set builders, etc. had put there that I hadn't been able to see before. I love blu-ray for things like this. To get to see a film that you've seen more than a dozen times almost like it was the first time is amazing.

I do have a question, that's really rather silly, and which I feel ashamed to ask. When I was a kid, the scariest part of the film to me was not the Witch, but the weird monkey-like things that are her companions. How were these done? Are these midgets in costume? I used to think that they were real trained monkeys, but having seen the blu I'm now thinking that they are little people in suits. Is that right?

Ben, I'm glad you guys enjoyed the new edition. And thanks for pointing out that you see the mistake. You are right, it doesn't destroy the new restoration. However, I really hope that if it is a mistake, that WB fixes it now so that in the future it will not remain. Now to answer your question about the Winged Monkeys....most of the monkeys were smaller statured men, such as jockeys. Harry Monty portrayed a Munchkin and a Winged Monkey. Around a dozen or so men were the Witch's monkeys. To supplement the actors, several miniature rubber models were used for the flying scenes. They were positioned on wires. According to several sources, the men in suits were paid for each time they were hoisted above the soundstage!

Eric: Thanks so much for the explanation of something that's worried me since I was about 5. And I'm now 45!

Has anyone seen (or seen a review of) the UK copy? I was wondering about the format of the extras (PAL vs NTSC, region coding etc.).

Warner titles with SD extras are always in NTSC, and all Warner BD titles are all region. And, yes, I've seen this specific title.

OK, it's good to hear that you've seen it. Actually I already have a US version of this. The main reason I'm interested is that I have the UK Gone with the Wind on order, which I assume will be the same, format-wise, as the blu Wizard.

Yes, GWTW will be the same. :)

Heads up: Blu-ray.com is reporting that the 3-Disc Emerald Edition, exclusive to Target stores back on release day, will be available from all retailers on 12/1.

In this particular case, neither High Resolution or the high quality scans nor the optical (which was, indeed, excellently done at the time) are the issue with the problem you refer to. What you see is an error stemming from corrections (painting) in the digital realm.  The picture information of the preceeding frame is, indeed, clearly repeated on the left side of that (next, aligning) frame you refer to, causing a jump on the left only.  This should have been picked up during the checks. OZ has at least one other glitch like this, a repeated frame at 22:39 (the same frame is first seen with a little piece of negative dirt on it, then, exactly one frame later, with that piece of dirt removed) causing Billie Burke to "freeze" involutarily for that brief moment when she moves. As for grain - the characteristics of the TECHNICOLOR process and materials differs re: grain structure and sharpness of the grain in the picture image of the BD release.  So an alteration was made; but I agree with RAH that this (the grain issue) is not in any way cause for not enjoying the film.  GWTW, by the way, does not have this particular problem. 

It may not be a cause for not enjoying the film, but these problems need to be fixed. This is a National Treasure and I appreciate all of the work gone into it. But WB needs to acknowledge their mistakes, as well as their successes. IMO, this is unacceptable, especially given the status of this film.

I'm sure Warner would gladly accept your donation of, say, $500,000 to go back to the HD master and fix these issues that maybe a dozen people will even notice.

All sarcasm aside, nothing is ever perfect. This release is pretty damn close, which says something.

I've "donated" enough money to WB with my purchases over the years. Altering the soundtrack and botching shots, no matter how insignificant they are to some people, is never right. Mistakes happen, but they should have been caught. I'm not saying another word on here about this. I'm done. Let the mistakes remain.

WB steps up to the plate more times than not, when they make a mistake. They did a fix of one of the Matrix Blu-rays, for ONE frame that was messed up. Even did an exchange for the title.

For the collectors price of this title, which i dont own because of that reason, they should make sure it is done right...100%