The Fugitive: Season 3 Volume 1

on a completely different point - someone mentioned being disappointed that girard never talked about kimble in regard to his son or wife.

there is a definite reason for this.  the character of girard is someone who is blindly going about his business of catching the guy that "he let get away".

if the show has him talk about his son, his wife, or the several times that he himself was helped by kimble - there would be no real way to keep up that relentless, non-doubting character.

if i recall, girard does start to soften up some, at the end.

but most of the time when he talks about kimble, it is only in regard to catching him.  many times he says that kimble would not kill anyone else, cuz he has never tried before, even when cornered.  but it is always in a vein in whether something is true or not, and whether it will help him to catch kimble or not.

even in the episode about the computer, when it comes up with 2% likelihood of kimble killing his wife, girard says something like "2% is enough for me".  LOL.

i would like to have seen recurring roles.  the nun that was turning from god was on a second episode.  but not many.

in fact, many actors played multiple roles during the 4 years.  for example, kurt russell played girard's son, and then was the leader of the kids that tried to capture him with a gun that they had bought, but ended up wounding one of the kids.

there was an interview with barry morse on youtube, explaining that the directors of the show would recast actors that they liked, wanting to work with what they thought were excellent actors.

Jimmyjet:

DVP and I are on the same page and your perceptions make no sense.  The will o' the wisp could mean a million things to different people and Kimble has no reason to think that referred to him.  If she had asked what Kimble's wife's name was, he would have lied so she boldly mentioned it to get his reaction and in his state he assumed he slipped up and then he admitted that was her name, confirming Marie's conclusion.  It's obvious that, from here, she becomes desperate to keep him with her and is pressing too much but that he doesn't know who she is until he talks to Gerard on the phone.  There are no errors with this viewpoint and it is brilliantly written and executed by the performers.

Yes, I was nearly 11 on October, 1963 when I saw the Fugitive for the first time (Never Wave Goodbye - Part 2.)  I was hooked immediately and had to do a lot of fast talking to stay up to watch it on successive Tuesdays thereafter.  These values, especially religious ones like Angels Travel On Lonely Roads, are hard to find in entertainment today.  They must not be totally gone though, as young people seem to keep finding and falling in love with this show.

SteveL

of course it did.  just look at kimble jump.  the guy who got away.  he did it again today.  he is in all the papers.  you must have read about him. 

kimble knows how obsessed girard is with his capture.

are you kidding ?  the average joe would have had high cause to suspect that marie knew who he was.  and kimble himself is much smarter than the average person.  certainly he would have had enough caution not to go on blindly about the joke of the town.

and again, i persist - marie already had a high degree of certainty that she was with kimble at that time.  no way would she have wanted to give kimble the clue that she knew that.  if she had wanted to confirm, she would have done so in a way that was completely safe for her. 

there was nothing for her to gain by 100% confirmation.  she had everything to lose, possibly.  kimble already said he would stay with her.  if she gave him no reason to run, he had given her every confirmation that he would stay with her.  so her best plan of action was simply to let him take care of her until the ambulance/police came.  when they did come, would be her time to tell them about kimble.  either he would be or he wouldnt be kimble.  but by not raising his suspicion, she stood the only chance that she had - that of keeping him there until the authorities arrived.

she wanted kimble there, desperately.  not only so that the police could catch him, and she would have her life back with her husband, but also because she was scared about being blind.  she had been very clingy long before she found out that she was with kimble.

and if kimble found out it was girard's wife, marie would have been faced with the very distinct possibility (at least in her mind, since she does not know how good-hearted kimble is) that kimble would do the very thing that she was most scared about - leave her.

as i said, her best plan of action, and the one that most people would have taken, is to say nothing more, continue on with keeping him there because she was scared - and then tell on him when the others arrived.

we will just have to agree to disagree.

i see you are only a year or 2 younger than me - so you certainly grew up with the morality that i was speaking about.

Marie Gerard had no clue that she was with Kimble when their chat begins in the restaurant/bar in the "Landscape" episode.

It's only after she starts talking to him (after they sit down) that she even begins to suspect that the man across the table from her might be Dr. Richard Kimble.

And this "suspicion" really only firmly takes hold after Kimble's "1-and-a-half" remark concerning the Stafford, Indiana, newspapers. And then when Kimble mentions the actual name of the newspaper -- the "Call-Dispatch" -- Marie is then fairly certain she's talking to Kimble (and rightly so, since it's unlikely that there's another smalltown newspaper with the name "Call-Dispatch" other than the one that is published in Stafford, Indiana).

Edited by David Von Pein - 11/2/09 at 12:49am

Just a thought, but maybe a new thread should be started discussing the storyline of the Fugitive (e.g., Fugitive the plot (spoilers included). I think most are familiar with this thread as the place to go to discuss the quality and music replacement issues surrounding the Fugitve releases. Of late it has been discussing the storyline iteslf about what makes sense and what didn't with no spoiler tags. As one who has never seen the Fugitive before I have been staying way other then to take quick glances to see if any new issues have poped up before buying, while attempting to skip over aspect talking about plot. I assume there maybe others in the same boat.

Brad,

Same here.  I'm seeing the show for the first time on DVD so I skim over the recent posts for any tech info on the DVD release.  But I understand the poster's fun and discussion in the srorylines.  Unfortunately, I know how the show ends because I read that Barry Morse obituary last year and it gave away something about the ending that I hadn't known. 

Another thread is a good idea.  Gets my vote.

hi dvp,

my take, exactly.

hey fugitive-newbies,

okay, i will quit talking about the story line - dont want to spoil the surprises.  have fun watching.

Sorry about spoiler alerts or discussions in the wrong threads.  Like I said above, I'm new to posting here.  It amazes me that anyone reading this thread would be new to The Fugitive and yet I commented on the fact that new people are discovering this show, even today.  To anyone seeing "Landscape" for the first time, enjoy.

Jimmy, yes...I agree to disagree.

SteveL

Jimmy, Steve,

Hey, no problem on "spoilers" :)  I'm one of the VERY few in my generation ('Boomer) that somehow missed this one over the years.  I was a little young for this one when it originally aired and missed it in syndication over the years.  As mentioned, I know the big surprise at the end of the show in S4 so the other discussions about the show aren't too much of a problem for me here.

I will say that it's a real blast getting able to watch this great show for the 1st time on DVD's.  No commercials, etc.  Fantastic!  I owe my friend Gary for this one.  He plugged me into this show back when S1V1 was released.


That said, I do like Brad's idea of maybe another "storyline" thread on the Bd.  That would be good for this show since we know here that the interest would easily support a storyline thread for this show.

well, i did start a story-line thread, if anyone wants to post.  it is a great show - hope those that havent seen it yet, enjoy.

Back to the technical part of the discussion, did anyone notice the shortened, edited closing theme on "Trial By Fire"?  I watched that one this morning and was jolted when I heard the odd edit of the music.

A theory on what happened there: the network, ABC, must have needed an extra 10 seconds for some kind of extra promo, PSA, or other element and requested a shortened credits sequence for that particular episode.  It's exactly 10 seconds shorter than normal.

Another oddity in that episode is the mid-episode narration from William Conrad. That didn't happen too often.

Harry

It's also possible that the episode content was 10 seconds longer than usual and they decided to shorten the credits rather than the show itself. If you've watched episodes of "Naked City" or "Route 66" the length of the end credits of those shows are all over the place. Although usually a minute in length there's at least one "Naked City" episode where the end credits run almost 3 minutes.

Nope.  The credits start at exactly 50:27 on all of the episodes on Disc One, and the music is always consistent throughout the run of THE FUGITIVE.  The episodes all run to 51:27, except "Trial By Fire" which concludes at 51:17, exactly 10 seconds short.

It has to be a special request to QM by ABC for 10 seconds less to accomodate some kind of promo, or something like that.  The episode aired on 10/5/65, so it wasn't election coverage or anything like that.  To have the program producer shorten it upfront had to require it to be a known event, not a new flash or anything like that. 

Harry

Hey - this set could have been subtitled "Richard Kimble Meets The Cast Of Star Trek"! 

In these fifteen episodes alone, we have him meeting up with James Doohan in "Middle Of A Heat Wave", DeForest Kelley in "Three Cheers For Little Boy Blue", and Captain Kirk himself, William Shatner in "Stranger In The Mirror" - all major cast members of STAR TREK.

Meanwhile, elswhere in the parade of guest stars we find Laurence Montaigne (Decius, Stonn), Meg Wyllie (head Talosian), Malachi Throne (Commodore Mendez), with a host of others that had small roles in STAR TREK.

Harry

I'm about halfway through this set, and I find myself realizing that I'm probably listening to a Heyes cue, but it fits the action. In other words, Heyes has come up with some decent cues. The music editing is also much better than in Season 2 (especially volume 2) -- I haven't been blasted yet, which is why those Heyes cues have been sneaking up on me. I'd still rather have the originals, but if we're going to have Heyes, at least he's being spotted much better.

Malachi's a favorite of mine.  In his roles he tends to come off as being pugnacious and a bit gruff which can be refreshing.

Rick, if you were to guesstimate, what percentage of the music is original compared to replacement?

Why is a percentage number important?

Not gonna do it. Don't care.

I care if it feels like the "Fugitive" I remember, and that any new music cues don't disrupt it.

It does and (so far) they don't.

I just finished watching "Three Cheers for Little Boy Blue" and really enjoying the show again !!
Great episode for a great show !

Because 10 percent or 20 percent of replacement music is easier to live with than say 50 percent or 60 percent of replacement music. Sorry for asking.

All I want to know is whether S3 V1 is about the same as S2 V1-redux as far as music replacement is concerned.  (I can stomach the amount of Heyes in set 2-1 but as for 2-2 it probably should be buried under a ton of brimstone.)

What if it's really 21 percent?  Or 48.7%?

I watched a fellow member here skewered to the point of leaving simply because he guesstimated a number on Season Two.  His guesstimate didn't sit well with some other members and he was essentially driven off the board.

Why would anyone want to put themselves in a similar situation?  

Harry

I was visiting these boards since the time the Season Two replacement sets were announced and I don't remember anybody getting driven away. The only thing I do remember is that somebody with access to the information on the replacement set opted not to provide everything he knew about it, preferring to allow people to find it out for themselves.

     Quote:

Since I know exactly who and what you are talking about Harry, I'm only going to say this one time.  I completely disagree with the assessment that the person was "driven off the board."  They made some seriously wrong assumptions about another member who subsequently showed them, beyond dispute, where they had erred.  And I'm not talking about the replacement discs and the percentages (although that too was gently and kindly brought up in PMs).  Within all this some bad feelings were brewing but no one was "driven off the board" (as if such a thing were even possible).  I'm just saddened that such a thought would still exist in the minds of any regulars here.  For me it just goes to show how far afield much of the "gossip" had gotten.

No offense to you Harry, but the situation you are referencing is a highly personal one to me.  But I'll leave it at that and say no more.

Gary "and here I thought we had gotten beyond all this..." O. 

P.S.  I do agree with you, in general, that trying to put a percentage on how much replacement music is in this set is somewhat of a losing proposition.  I think Michael has asked the right question above about the general tone of the volume.  Is it like Season 2, V1 or Season 2, V2?  The consensus amongst many fans here was that the first volume was acceptable but the second was not.  But of course that's relative as well.


Edited by Gary OS - 11/16/09 at 1:33pm

Why talk about percentages anyway.  There have been several very good articles and posts that have reviewed this set with great detail.  There are nine episodes with no (zero, nada) music changes.  There are a couple that only have changes to music on the radio or in the restaurant and it is no problem.  There are two troubling episodes, "Wings Of An Angel" and "Conspiracy of Silence," that have more replacement than they should and to a lessor extent, there are a few changes in "Set Fire To A Straw Man (not my favorite episode.")

IMO, as regards the music issue, this set is better than S2V1 (replacement) and much better than S2V2.  It is great watching episode after episode in great quality, with the music (in 12 of 15) almost completely intact.  I watched four episodes on Saturday with extreme pleasure with the presentation of the episodes.

The percentages are high enough to warrant a purchase.  Enjoy....

Steve Lecher

Steve Lecher

Thanks Steve.  I think that info will satisfy just about all of us here! 

Gary "I'll be buying this set as soon as a decent sale pops up - hopefully within the next couple of weeks" O.

Gary,

I agree.  I thought I read some meaning there as well.  I can only speak for myself but it has always appeared to me that there have been 2 distinct "camps" regarding the Fugitive CBS sets containing the Heyes sub'ed music.  I have seen, my take on it, passionate posts from both camps on the issue since it made news.  There have been several posters that, imo, have gone beyond the line in posting their opinions on the subject.  Perhaps I have been one of those in the past, and if that was percieved by some on the Bd, I apologize for that.

I've been on record as being unsatisfied with the CBS sets but have admitted on several posts that I felt CSB deserved recognition for re-releasing S2V1 with partially-restored (Rugolo restored) backscore content.

At the same time, I have also posted several times about being happy to see the CBS releases continue for those that prefer the altered-score studio sets.  I hope that they continue to generate good sales #'s for CBS and that seems to be the case here since CBS has completed the remastering work for the series, iirc.

That, however, has not seemed to satisfy some members here that have ignored my attempts to extend a friendly post to them.  That's ok, I'll live with it :)  But I find it interesting that some here don't seem to be able to forget the past and drop certain things that have occurred back when the Fugitive threads were going full blast with numerous passionate posts from several members.  Thankfully, it has seemed to me to have settled down considerably from those days.

Interestingly, I extended several "olive branches" with friendly posts to the guy that (I think) Harry's referring to, to try and re-establish a friendly exchange of posts with the guy, and received no response.  That's ok, since as we all know, we can't control how others may perceive us, so I moved on.  But I wish the guy the best and, on my part, there's no ill will on my side of things.  Having said that, I wasn't the reciepent of unacceptable PM's from someone either.  As the old saying goes, there's usually 2 sides to an issue.

One thing I've noticed, and it may be my mistake in perception about it, but I noticed that some of the pro-CBS-release guys seemed to resent it that some here chose not to buy the CBS sets with the modified backscore.  That seems to be a moot issue to me since it appears that CBS will complete the series release and they will get what they wanted after it is all said and done.

As it will probably play out, I will also own the complete studio set but I have elected to get the CBS sets from Santa and birthdays.

Well said, Jeff.  Very, very well said.  When multiple olive branches are extended in threads and via PMs and rejected (and it sounds like both of us did that) then I have no time for comments about pushing someone out the door. 

Gary "take care, buddy" O.

My apologies Gary.  I shouldn't have said what I did in my above post.  I was just a bit irked that the question of percentages kept being pressed, and in a cranky mood (with a bad cold) I probably should have stayed off the computer!  Not being involved in the referenced fracus, I should have steered clear on commenting on it.  (But it goes to point out how things can be mis-interpreted by casual observers on message boards.)

I also felt there were enough honest appraisals of all of the episodes on this volume in this very thread that guesstimates of percentages just weren't necessary.  

I'm enjoying the Season Three, Volume 1 set and hope that everyone else has the same capacity to do so.  I know some have difficulty in even the slightest alterations - I'm not one of those and can deal very nicely with modest amounts of music substitutions as long as the main flavor of the Rugolo and CBS library cues are there.

Harry