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Smileboxed THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM -- Will it ever make it to Bluray?

#1
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7/25/09 at 10:57am
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I just found this excerpt from TWWOTBG in Smilebox on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBB2KkJdD0E

Now, for years I've been reading that this movie doesn't exist in its original three-camera format anymore.  Yet, it seems to me that this excerpt couldn't have been taken from a flat version of the film because it shows the side panels wider than the central panel, which is standard for Cinerama but not for the flat versions of Cinerama movies.

So, does this mean that, somewhere, there's a three-panel print of this movie that could be used for a Bluray transfer a-la HTWWW?

Gerardo
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#2
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7/25/09 at 12:10pm
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 Where on Earth did you read that the original three-camera material doesn't exist?  As far as I know, they've never attempted to use it for any transfer - they used the 35mm composite for the laserdisc.  I'm sure a beautiful Smilebox transfer could be made off the original elements, just as How The West Was Done was done.
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#3
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7/25/09 at 1:01pm
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I would remember if I'd read it in just one place but it's been said for years, sometimes in our forums right here.  I remember reading something to the effect of Pacific Theaters, which owned the rights, had let it decay to the point of no recovery with reels missing panels, faded color, etc.

Somebody pls. correct me if I'm wrong.
Gerardo
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#4
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7/25/09 at 1:33pm
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Pacific Theatres owns the Cinerama process, the name, and the original Cinerama Films, but Warner's owns the movie and all release rights through their pre 86 MGM library as they do with HTWWW.  I have heard that for TWWOBG to be released on DVD (SD or Blu-ray) that the elements would need a lot of work. 

I have heard two different stories about the seven films released from Cinerama.(This Is Cinerama, etc.) in that Pacific has worked on them and gotten them into good shape and that they have been left to decay.  I have no idea which is correct.
“For God's sake don't say yes until I've finished talking.” - Daryl F. Zanuck  
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#5
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7/25/09 at 4:51pm
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I recall the guy behind Cinerama Adventure stating that some reels of the neg had been badly waterdamaged while being stored at the Forum Theater where all the Cinerama negs and prints were(are?) held. As a result no chance of TWWOTBG making it to HD.I would love to be wrong!!
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#6
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7/25/09 at 5:13pm
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I don't know the source of the information, but Wikipedia says:
Quote:
The original 35 mm 3-panel Cinerama camera negatives were heavily water damaged in a warehouse fire. The film was never transferred to a 70 mm version after it was made, so the only surviving prints are edited 35 mm composite prints. Until recently, the only prints thought to survive were not copies of the original roadshow version, and did not contain all three panels of information. The left area of the A panel and the right area of the C panel were missing from the composite prints. In addition, the color was badly faded. Because of the cost, most doubted that there would ever be a restored version of this film.

However, the current version shown on Turner Classic Movies is the full-length version, with all three panels in view—a version not seen since the film's 1962 roadshow release, not even on television. Not only does it include an Overture, Entr'acte and Exit Music; it also includes the long-unseen two-minute prologue to the main title. After we see the M-G-M lion roaring and the words "Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and Cinerama present a George Pal Production", the scene changes to show two armies firing off cannon furiously, while the announcer says, "Once again, at the beginning of the nineteenth century, Europe was torn by the sounds of war. However, if you listen very closely, you might hear another, very different sound". The camera then pans into the horizon while we hear the soft sounds of quill pens writing on paper. The scene then switches to show Laurence Harvey and Karl Boehm writing busily as the credits come up onscreen.
 

The New York Post confirms the water damage story.

It sure sounds like composite prints are the only usable elements.  At least the current composite appears to have all of the picture information from all three panels.  Maybe they can apply the Smilebox process to that in order to compensate for the "fisheye" appearance?

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#7
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7/26/09 at 10:12am
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 I did some research and have found out that it is not the entire thing that's water damaged - it's one panel (not sure if it's the center panel or one of the two side panels).  I wonder if with all of today's technology it could somehow be fixed - but the cost vs. sales would probably prohibit it.  
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#8
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7/26/09 at 1:49pm
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At one of the chats, Warners admitted they weren't even considering it at the time of the chat. At this point, I'd be reasonably happy with an anamorphic DVD of the widescreen version they play on television just so I could retire the laserdisc. A Blu-ray would be beyond my wildest dreams.
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#9
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7/26/09 at 4:01pm
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If you notice there is a reel change indicator at one point in this on the right hand upper corner of the screen... and it is eliptically shaped indicating this was taken from a 35mm anamorphic print, not a three strip element.  I suspect this is the video version we have seen on TCM for years with some of the smilebox processing applied.  The sound is actually pretty good and very directional as it would have been in its Cinerama version.   I doubt given the lack of commercial interest that we will see this restored on blu ray anytime soon.  The other thing is.... it isn't a particularly good movie.  Of course I would like to see all the Cinerama features restored with the smilebox processing on blu ray. 
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#10
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7/26/09 at 11:30pm
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I also noticed that reel change indicator and figured someone used Smilebox technology to reshape the old TV broadcast.  Yo're right, it's not a particularly good movie but that sequence I posted a link to is almost better (Cinerama-wise) than any scene in HTWWW.  I wonder if they could extract a decent Bluray version of the film from the 35mm scope print we're looking at here, or if it just wouldn't be worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim*Tod View Post

If you notice there is a reel change indicator at one point in this on the right hand upper corner of the screen... and it is eliptically shaped indicating this was taken from a 35mm anamorphic print, not a three strip element.  I suspect this is the video version we have seen on TCM for years with some of the smilebox processing applied.  The sound is actually pretty good and very directional as it would have been in its Cinerama version.   I doubt given the lack of commercial interest that we will see this restored on blu ray anytime soon.  The other thing is.... it isn't a particularly good movie.  Of course I would like to see all the Cinerama features restored with the smilebox processing on blu ray. 


Gerardo
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