Dazed and confused

#1

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7/23/09 at 1:30pm

Don Keegan
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Folks, I need help understanding how to hear Dolby TrueHD DTS/MA from my BD through a receiver with HDMI connectors. the few manuals for model I've read say audio will not pass must use Digital or analog connection. My BD doesn't have 6 discrete analog outs. What do I have to look for in a used receiever that will allow the audio thru HDMI. Don't have the funds to buy new decoding recever just want to use decoder in my BD player. All help will be greatly appreciated!

#2

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7/23/09 at 3:29pm

Mark-P
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Well first you need to determine whether or not your blu ray player has on-board Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA decoders. If it does not, you will have to be sure the receiver you purchase does decode those formats. However if your BD player does have on-board decoding, you may be able to save a little money by finding a receiver that just accepts 7.1 PCM through the HDMI as the BD player would decode and convert the signals to PCM.

#3

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7/23/09 at 3:35pm

Stephen Tu
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It depends which BD player you have. Supply the brand and model #. Do you have a receiver already or not, and which model?

What's your budget? The feature has dropped enough on this years models that you might be able to get a new receiver (~$180-200 for the cheapest ones w/o decoding but with multi-ch LPCM, $270-$330 for ones with decoding).

Mainly you are looking for "HDMI repeater" rather than "HDMI pass-through" or "HDMI switching". And search the online manual PDF's HDMI connection sections for verbiage like "separate audio connection needed" which is what you don't want.

It may be fairly hard to find a used receiver with this feature, since if a receiver has it, it would tend to be too new for anyone to really want to upgrade.

#4

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7/23/09 at 3:56pm

gene c
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As the other two mentioned, if your BR player has an internal decoder then you need a receiver the accepts LPCM (7.1) over HDMI. In most brands receiver lines, the model just under the one that has an internal decoder (hdmi vs. 1.3a repeater) will do it. For Marantz, the 5003 is DD TruHD/DTS-MA compatible and the 4003 accepts LPCM. For Onkyo its the 606 that decodes and the 576 that accepts LPCM.

I believe HDMI 1.1 (and higher) is the version that accepts LPCM (like DVD-A) but I'm not positive. This is all very confusing and the manufacturers don't really provide the needed information. You have to dig for it.

Look for a factory refurb like the ones I linked to if you're on the cheap.

Lower end receivers, like the Onkyo 507 and Denon 590, are starting to include built-in decoders.

"Everyday room": Mitsubishi 52631 RPTV, H/K 520, H/K dvd-5, H/K 8380, H/K CDR 20, OPPO BDP-83 BluRay player, Dish-HD, Infinity Beta 20's-C250-OWS1's, Dayton HSU10.
"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65HM167 RPTV, Pioneer Elite 59txi, Elite DV59avi, Elite CD-59, Pioneer PD-51FD BR, Dish-DVR, Swan Diva...

#5

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7/26/09 at 3:50pm

Don Keegan
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Yes it does have a decoder it's a sharp hp-bd 16

#6

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7/26/09 at 5:17pm

Stephen Tu
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You might be able to find Pioneer VSX-519, Sony STR-DH700 in the sub-$200 range, that would meet your needs.

#7

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7/27/09 at 9:13am

Don Keegan
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Thanks Stephen for the verification both are on my find list for the last couple of days I believe I'm on the right track now thanks for the help! Everyone

#8

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8/4/09 at 5:08pm

Don Keegan
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Well I finally got a hold of the Sony STR-DH700 and hooked it up to my sharp hp-bd 16 Blu-Ray player and spent the last two days trying to set up but I can't get it to produce surround sound of any sort I get no vocals from the on screen actors I do get sound out of all 5 speakers such as explosions and gun shots but not of good quality, but no voices what so ever I know i'm not even properly receiving the core Dolby Digital. I do know it has something to do w/the HDMI i'm using to connect the two. I set the BD player to output pcm so I can receive True HD i'm now more frustrated please help

#9

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8/4/09 at 5:41pm

Stephen Tu
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Did you run the auto-calibration on the Sony?
Does the test tone sound equal out of all 5 speakers?
Do you have the Sony on "A.F.D" auto-format direct auto?
In the audio menu, is "dec. pri" set to "dec. auto"?
HDMI menu, "audio for HDMI" set to "AMP"?

How does a std DVD do in the player?
Does either a std DVD or BD work with "bitstream" instead of "PCM" on the HDMI? (In the end you want PCM for the TrueHD etc. but have to try to figure out what works & doesn't to narrow down the suspects.)

#10

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8/4/09 at 6:05pm

Don Keegan
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Did you run the auto-calibration on the Sony? No
Does the test tone sound equal out of all 5 speakers? Yes
Do you have the Sony on "A.F.D" auto-format direct auto? I will check
In the audio menu, is "dec. pri" set to "dec. auto"? Itried to set to that could get it to set
HDMI menu, "audio for HDMI" set to "AMP"? yes

How does a std DVD do in the player? the same
Does either a std DVD or BD work with "bitstream" instead of "PCM" on the HDMI? (In the end you want PCM for the TrueHD etc. but have to try to figure out what works & doesn't to narrow down the suspects.)

#11

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8/4/09 at 9:50pm

Stephen Tu
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Run the auto-cal, try to get those settings on auto, test with bitstream rather than PCM, and also test with optical instead of HDMI. Do you have any other DVD players? Idea is to try to figure out whether the Sony is busted or if it's the Sharp.

What's your volume setting on?

#12

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8/5/09 at 4:26pm

Don Keegan
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I've tried all suggestions all setting standard dvd thru HDMI no go no center channel voice sound only, Hooked up optical works fine it has to be with the hdmi tried hdmi in all hdmi inputs no change????

#13

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8/5/09 at 4:28pm

Don Keegan
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on the bd player i sel to play digital vice hdmi with only hdmi hooked up no opt/coax and got sound

#14

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8/5/09 at 4:47pm

Stephen Tu
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Quote:

I've tried all suggestions all setting standard dvd thru HDMI no go no center channel voice sound only

This is unparseable, there's no way to decipher what you are saying here. Let's break this into sections, I'll assume you managed to get the receiver set to A.F.D. auto and dec. pri auto, input mode auto:

via HDMI connection:
- output set to bitstream.
Working or not? Does DD or DTS indicator show on receiver?
Sound out of all channels?
Is the center channel missing, or only getting sound out of center channel?
If you raise volume, everything gets louder, still missing center channel?

-output set to PCM. Same questions as bitstream, except DD/DTS indicator not expected to appear.

via optical:
- all working perfectly?

Quote:

on the bd player i sel to play digital vice hdmi with only hdmi hooked up no opt/coax and got sound

??? Try to break this up into separate complete sentences.

#15

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8/5/09 at 4:56pm

Don Keegan
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Stephen Thank you for the reply Sorry for the nonsense i've so far sent but 3 days of tring to get this to work has taken its toll .

First i have tried all suggestions but wondering utilizing hdmi should i use bit stream or pcm (surround)?

#16

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8/5/09 at 5:03pm

Don Keegan
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also in the manual it states you may have to select hdmi video out to 720p 1080I or 1080p i;ve tried this to no avile but i'm using component out to tv because i have no hdmi on my older rptv tv so i selected the higher rate but don't really output do you think that could be the problem?

#17

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8/5/09 at 5:06pm

Stephen Tu
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Try both! Answer the questions I gave you. Like I said the goal is to get PCM working, but whether or not bitstream works can sometimes give clues.

At some point you may have to obtain another model BD player to determine which component is faulty. But do the tests, so we have a thorough baseline of what works, and what doesn't.

You said you could hear explosions & the like. If you turn up the volume is this heard clearly? The soundtrack music as well? Is it only the center channel not responding, and is that with bitstream, PCM, or both?

Edited by Stephen Tu - 8/6/2009 at 12:36 am GMT

#18

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8/5/09 at 5:25pm

Stephen Tu
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Not having HDMI on the TV might be an issue. Have to call Sharp and ask, perhaps. It would be pretty lame, but it's been known to happen. E.g. my Tivo doesn't work with HDMI -> receiver, component to TV. But my Sony BD and previous Toshiba HD-DVD worked just fine that way. Which TV? Some old TVs have a DVI/HDCP jack that would work with an adapter.

Do you have the latest Sharp firmware loaded?

Maybe Sharp BD just sucks, too late to return?

#19

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8/5/09 at 5:56pm

Don Keegan
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Yes i have the rec set to afd auto dec pri auto

via HDMI connection:
- output set to bitstream. YES
Working or not? no sound from fronts but no center Does DD or DTS indicator show on receiver? no
Sound out of all channels? sort of but no voices no words just lips moving
Is the center channel missing, or only getting sound out of center channel?
If you raise volume, everything gets louder, still missing center channel?

-output set to PCM. better sound from fronts no center no surround Same questions as bitstream, except DD/DTS indicator not expected to appear.

via optical:
- all working perfectly? yes

#20

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8/5/09 at 6:00pm

Don Keegan
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does secondary audio have to be on or off?

#21

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8/5/09 at 6:21pm

Stephen Tu
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Set secondary off for now. And stick with DVDs only for now, no BDs yet. See if you can get DD/DTS indicator on DVDs, with output HDMI, bitstream.

Does the volume control have any effect? Is the music strong & clear from the fronts, just missing dialog from the center channel?

There is a channel indicator on the left of the Sony. Are you only seeing the "L" and "R" light up or do you get all 5.1 channels?

And what was that TV model?

You could try calling Sharp and/or Sony tech support. Though I doubt they'll be able to help, can't hurt (other than hold time). Easiest is if you have friends from whom you could borrow a different BD player to test.

If it's too late to return the Sharp, just use optical, and don't go nuts over this, the difference is pretty damn tiny anyway.

Edited by Stephen Tu - 8/6/2009 at 01:41 am GMT

#22

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8/6/09 at 5:46am

Don Keegan
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Set secondary off for now. And stick with DVDs only for now, no BDs yet.

See if you can get DD/DTS indicator on DVDs, with output HDMI, bitstream.
no indication
Does the volume control have any effect? works normal

Is the music strong & clear from the fronts, strong

just missing dialog from the center channel? yes and surround

There is a channel indicator on the left of the Sony. Are you only seeing the "L" and "R" light up or do you get all 5.1 channels? just L R

And what was that TV model? older 55 mits rptv non hdmi

You could try calling Sharp and/or Sony tech support. Though I doubt they'll be able to help, can't hurt (other than hold time). Easiest is if you have friends from whom you could borrow a different BD player to test.
call both no help
If it's too late to return the Sharp, just use optical, and don't go nuts over this, the difference is pretty damn tiny anyway.

is the difference really that small is this worth it? thanks again for all your time and knowledge

#23

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8/6/09 at 10:00am

Stephen Tu
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How old a Mits, what's the model #? Some of those have DVI, if 2003 model year or later (xxx13 +).

So HDMI/bitstream, no matter DVD or BD, you only get L/R lit up, and the dialog/center missing, huh? That's really weird, especially for DVD (expected result DD indicator w/ all channels, like optical). While optical you see all 5.1 channels light and the DD light no problem on bitstream I'm assuming. And HDMI/PCM is same result, L/R only no dialog, again with both DVD & Blu-ray?

The difference is small, if you were past the return period I'd say just use optical and don't sweat it. But with new equipment, personally it would kind of eat at me that it wasn't fully working since I'd feel entitled to a fully working device. If you can still return the Sharp, or even if not, I'd get hold of another BD player (w/ full HDMI decoding) to connect, make sure it's not a Sony problem. Hard to know if it's a sample specific issue, or a device design issue, without another BD player to test against. Maybe it's broken, or maybe the BD doesn't like to do HDMI audio when HDMI video isn't being utilized.

#24

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8/6/09 at 4:27pm

Don Keegan
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well your last sentence hit it on the head i totally disected the reciever manuel today after work and read a little statement that you may need to make certain settings on the image resolution of the player before you can enjoy multi channel lpcm so i set on the bd player for it to out put video w/ hdmi vice componet of course i can't see any video cause i have no hdmi or dvi on the mits but damn if the audio came to life all channels with full sound and all proper lights on the receiver l, r, s, rs, ls, and lfe so it now seems to receive lpcm you not only have to send hdmi audio out in pcm but also use hdmi video out to recieve lpcm does that make since?

#25

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8/6/09 at 4:51pm

Stephen Tu
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Geez that's pretty lame. Glad you finally found the trick. Guess the Sharp HP16 is as lame as the piece of crap HP20 my mother got free with her TV.

The manual suggests that you can still get component video out of the thing, as long as you set the HDMI to 1080i (not 1080p), for a Blu-ray. Might have to set it to 480p for a DVD. Does this work or just nothing from the component video if it's set to prioritize HDMI?

I don't have to put up with this nonsense on my Sony BD, it does component + HDMI video/audio simultaneously no issues. If you can return the Sharp I would. I'd look at the LG 370.

#26

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8/6/09 at 6:50pm

Don Keegan
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I hear yea! Lame i do get the 1080i video out so the video is good but the sound config is not backward compat for us nonhdmi tv pers so the sony rec go's back i think i will stick w/ dd and dts for now stephen truely thanks for sticking with me thru this project!

#27

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8/6/09 at 7:12pm

Stephen Tu
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I think the manual says you can set the video priority to hdmi (and thus getting the sound), hdmi resolution to 1080i, but still connect to TV using component, and get picture (at least for BDs). Is this not the case?

But yeah I guess just stick DD/DTS, didn't realize you had an old receiver you could use, if it's too late to return the Sharp.

#28

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8/10/09 at 11:14am

Don Keegan
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Sorry to leave you hanging been away fro a few days! i've tried it all i can select hdmi audi out and componet video to1080i but not at the same time if i select hdmi video out i get great sound no video if i select component out i get great vid but 2 chanel thru the hdmi. the sharp i have i'm stuck with bought it apr 09 i guess unless i get a hdmi tv i'm done i did hear of this fury 2 connector what do you know about it? think it would woprk in my situation?

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