Need Advice on a 2-zone receiver

Can someone recommend an inexpensive 2 zone receiver? 

I have a 52" Sony LCD in my family room and recently installed outdoor speakers.  I don't want surround sound in our setup.  Have an Onkyo TX-SR505 and I switch both the Video/Audio through the receiver.  We have Tivo HD with cablecards also.

Would like to have Sony TV and/or DVD playing inside and then have a different audio source outside.  I am only using the TV speakers in my family room.

I have an Onkyo TX-SR505 which is fine but apparently cannot provide the second zone.  Not sure which receiver to buy and don't want to overspend for many features that I am not going to use.

Please let me know.  Thank you.

Pioneer VSX-919

Thank you for responding.

Does Sony have a comparable Multi-zone receiver in this $399 price range?  If not, does the Pioneer model you mentioned connect to my Home PC so I can play MP3s through my receiver.

Any other features that I should be considering.

Please let me know.  Thanks.

I found a Sony for 399 or maybe less right now that seems to have multiroom capability.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158STDH800/Sony-STR-DH800.html?tp=179&tab=features_and_specs

I'm wondering exactly how it works though:  with my yamaha I can set a video source to cbl/sat and then switch to a strictly audio source and it will still route the video still but it will pick up the audio from the source I just selected.  If this unit does the same thing you could just run your outdoor speakers to B channel for the audio.  You would have to find out more about this receiver to see if it could do this.  I know they sell it at best buy, if you have one close by maybe they'd let you test this out.  If you look on their website it says this unit has multiroom capability in the specifications tab. 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9246602&type=product&id=1218067378938

I know Sony's have something called S-Air but I've never used it.  I'm wondering if thats what the website considers multiroom capability?


Edited by AudioENG - 7/15/2009 at 05:42 pm GMT

Audioeng, the guy wants *independent zones*, powered by a single receiver, with a different source selected in each zone.  The Sony 800 doesn't have multiple zones, it says so right on that feature list you linked to!  Even what you suggest about using a record out & another receiver is not useful, since the second zone would be forced to the same as the main zone.  Basically you didn't understand at all what he is asking for.

None of the cheap Sonys have multi-zone.  I don't know of any cheap receivers with network music streaming either, except perhaps for some old discontinued JVC models.  I suggest getting something like Logitech squeezebox or a Roku soundbridge.  TivoHD also works but I imagine people would be wanting to use it with the MP3 playing outside, so that wouldn't work.

Right you are sir, I misread the question.  I posted before I thought about it.  Doesn't look like the Sony is a good choice for what he wants.

Thank you for clarifying this.

I have TivoHD connected to the Onkyo TX-SR505.  Is it possible to have the Tivo going inside and then a second zone outside playing AM/FM radio?

I don't want to spend a ton at this point so I can live with this.  If this is possible with Tivo HD,  can you help explain. 

Please let me know.  Thanks.

Yes, it's possible with the Pioneer 919.

The Onkyo 505 doesn't have independent zone capability, so you can't really do it with this model.  It can be done on higher models, like my Onkyo 705, or newer models like the 507.  But the Pioneer 919 has more features than the 507, and is roughly same price (+$5 at Amazon); even if you don't use those features now they might be of value to you in future.

TivoHD is just a source, that can stream MP3, it has no bearing on the zone issue.  I only mentioned this since you expressed desire for MP3 streaming capability.  If you want to have radio/CD/DVD outside, Tivo playing TV or MP3 inside, you are fine without any other equipment.  But since Tivo only plays one thing at a time, if you wanted MP3 outside, with Tivo playing TV inside, then you'd need another device that can do MP3 like the soundbridge.

Thank you.  

Does the Pioneer 919 have a connection which would allow me to stream music to my second zone outside?

I have this functionality now with Tivo but only inside on my zone 1.

Please let me know.  Thanks.

I already answered that ... I'll try again:

The 919 has lots of connections for external sources.  The only thing internal to it though is the radio tuner.  Everything else requires an external device.  There is no built-in MP3 streaming capability, for example.  As I said in the previous post, you can use the Tivo to play MP3 streams to zone 1, zone 2, or both at the same time, as long as you aren't trying to watch TV on it at the same time.  But if you need the Tivo to play TV shows in zone 1, with MP3 going to zone 2, you'll need a separate MP3 streaming device because the Tivo is occupied doing something else.

I am dealing with the Tivo being occupied by 2 recordings and then changing the channel from my music station to a recorded show.  Any way to get aound this so the Tivo will not change the channel?

What if I split from the coax cable coming into the Tivo?  But then how I get this second line plugged into the receiver and then changed to the channel I want?

When you say "music station", do you mean a one of the music-only channels (possibly with video stills) on the digital cable?  If so, from Tivo's point of view they are just another TV channel, it needs to tune to it in order to hear it.  It only has 2 tuners, so if you are recording 2 other shows you can't also view the music station at the same time.  If it is switching from the music station to record a "suggestion" (the stuff it auto-records rather than stuff you asked it to record), you can get around this by hitting the remote periodically. If you hit play/pause or something like that within the last half hour it will assume you are actively watching the music station, and won't switch for a suggestion, only something you asked it to record.  Or you can disable the suggestions in the settings menu.

Why don't you just set up the Tivo Desktop software on your PC, then the Tivo can just play MP3s from your PC, it can have two recordings going on the background, and not affect the music?

Splitting the coax, it might work if the music channels are unencrypted on your system.  You'd feed the other end to your TV, not the receiver.  You'd do a digital chanel scan on your TV to pick up channels, then you'd have to laboriously go through the channels to see if any of the ones you pick up are the music channels you are looking for.

The VSX919 would probably work fine but I am still trying to figure out what the best solution is for us.

Here is what I am thinking of. 

Is there a single box solution for the 2 zones where a single remote would be able to control all of the sources including selection of MP3s which I would stream from a WHS home server.  I was looking at the Soundbridge and if that remote could control all of the MP3's I play plus the other sources (amfm, CD, etc) that would probably work.

If someone made a product which combined the Pioneer receiver with the Soundbridge, that is what I am looking for.  Something integrated for all audio sources.
 
Best Buy has a product called Sonos but I can't tell if that's what I need.  Please let me know.

Thanks.

Get the 919 + a soundbridge.  or 919 + Logitech squeezebox.  If you want one remote to control everything get a universal remote, Logitech Harmony 670 or One.

Receivers that have integrated MP3 streaming are way more expensive & the UI/features are unlikely to be as good as the dedicated devices.  Don't get Sonos, it is massively overpriced IMO, fewer features than the other combos.

Don't overthink this.  I gave you a working solution like 10 days ago already, for your specification of (inexpensive 2 zone + MP3 streaming).  Though there are zillions of other network music streamers if you are looking for other things like video playback capability, on-TV selection rather than on-device display.

Edited by Stephen Tu - 7/25/2009 at 06:24 pm GMT

Would it be possible to use both an IR emitter (what I have now) and the Next Generation RF converter on the same Onkyo 505 receiver.   I just ordered it yesterday and noticed it has an eye emitter also. 

Was wondering if both emitters can be placed on the receiver at the same time.  Then I could use both the regular remote (converted to RF) and then another universal remote at the same time.

I can use one remote inside and another outside.

Please let me know.  Thanks.

Shouldn't be any problem using multiple emitters.  But why do you need to?  Can't you just use the IR->RF on one remote used outside, and just use a normal IR remote inside?  Unless you have components in a closed off cabinet ...

Yes, the devices are in a separate room.  

I am wondering if there is enough space on the window of the Onkyo to fit both emitters on there.  Does Onkyo publish that information somewhere?  Has anyone done this before? 

Please let me know.  Thanks.

I wouldn't think there'd be any issue.  You don't have to actually attach the emitter directly over the sensor, you could hang them a little bit off so the sensor could see both emitters.  Or use the IR blaster on the base of the next gen system, which should be able to blast through the emitter of the other.  Or you could just get an extra remote battery transmitter for the next gen, and ditch your old system ...

After all of this, I am starting to think I don't need a 2 zone receiver after all.  We are using Tivo HD via HDMI into our family room.  In this room, we are only using the TV speakers so this would not take up a zone at all, would it?   I am thinking I can use a single zone directly to the outdoor speakers.

I am going with a Sony receiver that has Bravia Sync as the feature sounds convenient.   I am thinking of the STA-DA2400ES as it's around $550 online.   Would the Digital media port on this unit allow me to stream MP3s from my HP Home Server?

Am I correct that I only need a single zone?  And this Digital media port?  Please let me know.

Thanks.

I still hold to my original advice, 919 + soundbridge or 919+squeezebox.  Stop second guessing me!  If I thought there was a better solution for you I would have mentioned it already.

- It is completely bizarre to want to run only TV speakers.  You'll get much, much better sound on your TV shows + movies + music inside if you get external speakers.  Run only the front 3 + sub if you don't want to run surround.  Or at least front 2 + sub.  Or a soundbar + sub.  You are kind of wasting having a receiver.

- even if you do only run TV speakers, you still need 2nd zone capability if you are using the receiver for switching.  This is because whatever is selected on the receiver is going to be fed to the TV and the outside zone, while you said you wanted independent audio.  If you want to use your current receiver (not get a new one at all; if you are getting a new one might as well get zone 2 capability, not the Sony), you'll have to make two separate connections for all devices that you want to play on both the TV & the outside zone.  You'd connect the source directly to the TV, bypassing the receiver, for use with the TV speakers, and separate connection to the receiver which would only send audio outside.

- Bravia sync is not very useful IMO.  It does things like automatically turn on receiver + TV when you put a disc in the DVD player, if they are new enough to all have HDMI-CEC and don't have incompatibilities with each other.  But IMO a universal remote like a Harmony accomplishes the same thing, in a much more comprehensive manner, that doesn't depend on equipment compatibility.  Since I view a universal remote as a necessity, that obviates any benefit of Bravia sync.

-dmport.  Yes, it can stream audio from PC, but only after addition of an expensive adapter such as the Sony TDM-NC1.  This is almost as expensive as a soundbridge, doesn't have the features/format compatibility, plus it traps you into only Sony receivers, while a soundbridge is universally compatible.  Compare the ratings of this on Amazon for this vs. the Roku soundbridge 1000, 1.25 vs. 4 stars.

I am not second guessing your decision.   I am just learning about these types of products and with HDMI thrown in it's taking me some time to understand everything.  Hopefully, some of the other forum members are also benefitting from this.

My last thought would be to consider keeping the Onkyo and then disconnecting the Onkyo  from the TV and DVD player since I am only using TV speakers there anyways.

However, I want to have the Tivo stream MP3s to my outside speakers.  Would I have the option of using Tivo HD to an HDMI splitter?  Then connecting one end of the splitter to my TV and the other end directly into the receiver.   If so, any idea of an HDMI splitter that would do this?

Please let me know. 

Thank you for your patience while I am trying to understand this.  I am very appreciative of the information you have provided so far.  Have read this post several times already.

Like I said earlier, if you want to keep the Onkyo, you just make separate connections to the TV & receiver.  No HDMI splitter is necessary on the Tivo, just connect HDMI to the TV, and use optical audio to the receiver.

This of course breaks your original requirement of being able to watch Tivo inside while streaming MP3 to the outside speakers.  While it is streaming, you can't watch other TV programs on the Tivo simultaneously (you can watch a DVD, or TV via another method like live TV on an unencrypted channel straight off the cable).

I still want to be able to play my Tivo Audio outside while keeping my Onkyo receiver.  What can I do to acheive this?  Would an HDMI splitter allow me to have the Tivo playing inside and then outside also on my outdoor speakers? 

 

If not, is there another way to do this?  Please let me know.  Thank you.

Let me clarify, I want to be able to turn on my Tivo HD inside to a music channel and then have the same audio from the Tivo play on my outdoor speakers.   I understand whatever is playing inside would also be playing outside.

How can I accomplish this?  I was thinking about an HDMI splitter but not sure how what would work.  If I split from the Tivo out via HDMI, could'nt I then plug one HDMI source into the receiver and then the other directly to the TV?

Please let me know.  Thanks.

 

It was in my previous post.
"No HDMI splitter is necessary on the Tivo, just connect HDMI to the TV, and use optical audio to the receiver."

I did not realize I can do both HDMI and Optical Audio connections from the Tivo at the same time.     Although you posted this before, I was not thinking this would apply to the Tivo also.

This option would allow me to buy a less expensive Sony receiver (something single zone) with Bravia Sync for my TV/DVD players and then keep the Onkyo to do my outside switching plus allow me to play Mp3s off the Tivo when I want.  I think I finally understand this.

Is that correct?  Do you see any problems with this?

No, I don't think you understand this, you need to read the posts more carefully.

If you are keeping the Onkyo, content with TV speakers only (though I can't understand this), and single zone operation, there is really no reason whatsoever to buy an additional Sony receiver.  Just stick with what you have!

Bravia Sync on the receiver is hardly useful at all as I commented earlier, and especially if you are just using TV speakers.  Just connect the DVD player directly to the TV using HDMI, Bravia sync works between DVD/TV player, the intervening receiver would be doing absolutely nothing of value!



Edited by Stephen Tu - 8/19/09 at 7:23pm

The problem I have with that is my 52" Sony TV is mounted on a wall in my living room.  Then all of the cables run back behind my laundry room.  Right now, there is only a single HDMI port connected to the TV.

I can't connect both the Tivo and DVD directly to my TV without having an AV company wire an additonal HDMI port which I would guess is not the cost effective way to handle this.

How should I handle this issue of having to connect 2 devices to my TV via HDMI?  (Tivo and DVD)

How would I handle the switching so I can have Tivo playing inside on the TV speakers while I have AM radio on the outside speakers?  

The Onkyo by itself does not address these 2 issues, does it?

Get a cheap HDMI switch from monoprice for $30 or so, no need to pay $200+ for a whole new receiver if not actually driving speakers with it.

You can probably get away without any additional switch at all.  If you say hit "VCR/DVR" on the receiver to select the Tivo, then it should switch the HDMI to the Tivo, then you hit "tuner" to select the radio for the outside, I think the Tivo continues to get fed to the HDMI out.  Similar for DVD.  It might be slightly trickier if you want DVD inside & Tivo outside; you might have to assign the Tivo digital out to the CD input.  So to select Tivo for the TV, you hit "VCR/DVR".  To select Tivo for outside, DVD for inside, hit DVD first to do the HDMI switch for the TV, then hit "CD" to select the optical for audio to the outside.  The idea is that the Onkyo doesn't switch the video if you select an audio-only source.


Edited by Stephen Tu - 8/19/09 at 10:00pm

Thank you.

Is there any value in my situation to the "Video" features included in these receivers?  I am reading that some of them provide Upconversation to 1080p and Upscaling of Video.  Would that apply to watching shows on the Tivo or just the DVD player? 

If the DVD player does the upgrading what is the benefit of having this in the receiver also?

Please let me know.  Thanks.