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Needing a SUB now... so far i have these recommendations.... Need Decision making help!

#1
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1 x SVS PB-13 Ultra
or
1 x HSU ULS-15
or
2 x Elemental Designs A7S-450's
or
1 x Seaton Submersive
or
1 x (Pair) Elemental Designs P7-650
or
2 x Dragons

 

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#2
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What are your goals?  How large is your room?

The Ultra and P7-650 are both underhung drivers which will give you better sound quality.  The Hsu is underhung with XBL^2 (supposedly) technology which further lowers distortion.  The A7S has the standard 18" eD driver which is an overhung design.  I'm not sure about the drivers in the Submersive or the Epik.  But with Epik, the drivers are made by Fi Car Audio which is a plus in my book.

If you want output, then the 2 A7S subs with a parametric EQ would be my choice.  For pure sound quality I'd go with the Hsu, SVS or P7 with a nod going to the Hsu because of the XBL^2 driver.

-Robert
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#3
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I love Low frequencies, i like the floor to shake, but i dont want to hear sub rattle.
Room is 18'x13.5'x8'
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#4
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By pure sound you mean the booming bass?
I dont understand between output and sound quality, especially from a sub.
Please can you explain.
Thanks
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#5
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If i decide to get the A7S-450 can i add the parametric eq that is optional with them while adding it to the cart?
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#6
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The PEQ is not that big of a feature.  It can help tame a single peak, but it is much better to use an external EQ.  Many receivers now include EQ way better than the PEQ included with most subs.  Audyssey comes on most Denons, Onkyos, and Marantz. I use Audyssey and have my PEQ disabled.  I'm pretty much flat to 11hz.

Booming bass is normally not good bass.  Many times this is a small range that overpowers everything else.  Kinda like the Honda Civic packed with subs that bounces down the road.   Good bass will shake the foundations with sound so low you will not even hear it.  But it only shakes when it is told.  It should blend in with the other speakers to the point where you won't know where the sound is coming from. If it calls attention to itself, it is not good bass.
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#7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow View Post

 If it calls attention to itself, it is not good bass.
 


That is the problem with people who finally get a very good sub.  They crank it because they can't hear it.  Like David says, it should not call attention to itself.

A pure sound quality sub will sound like an acoustic bass when listening to music.  You should be able to close your eyes and imagine the bass player in the room with you.  The sound is effortless.  The subs that you have listed can all do that if properly set up.  They are all large enough to provide the bone crushing output needed to watch action and sci-fi movies as well. 

And you will not hear the sub rattle.  These enclosures are built like tanks.  You can browse the eD forum and see pictures of them building their enclosures on the CNC machine.  Epik at one time posted internal pictures of their enclosures.  The opposing drivers of the Submersive keep enclosure vibration at a minimum.  SVS also make quality components.  That is the least of your worries.  At reference levels you will have windows, doors and maybe walls that will be vibrating and making noise.

 

Finally, I'm a fan of the Behringer Feedback Destroyer as a parametric EQ.  I used it to flatten the response of my dual 15" DIY sub.  It took about an hour to measure the in-room response, graph it and make the appropriate changes on the EQ.  Besides the EQ, the only other equipment I bought for this was the Radio Shack analog SPL meter.  That is something every home theater enthusiast should own anyway.

-Robert

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#8
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I dont like bad boomy bass, its gets annoying to me after a while.
I like how the bass comes out really low and shakes the whole floor and you dont even know what is exactly causing that.
I want a sub that even on low volumes shakes the floor and people sitting in that room are almost scared as to what is gonna happen next.
LOL, i dont know what i am saying but hope you get the point.
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#9
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If a few of us can agree on 1 kind of sub, its going to be easier for me to make a decision.
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#10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl View Post

If a few of us can agree on 1 kind of sub, its going to be easier for me to make a decision.


Good luck with that ,  If there was one sub that was better than all the rest then we'd all have one.  You will find fans of all the brands/subs you listed. 
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#11
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With any of these subs, boomy bass will be caused by room interaction and improper placement.  If you are limited in sub placement locations, then you may need a PEQ.

-Robert
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#12
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What would you personally recommend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

With any of these subs, boomy bass will be caused by room interaction and improper placement.  If you are limited in sub placement locations, then you may need a PEQ.

-Robert


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#13
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I am leaning towards the ED A7S-450's.. I dont know why but the 18" and 1300w RMS is pulling me towards itself, and it weighs about 150 lbs each, so that tells me its going to be like a tank and i can't go wrong.

I am definitely planning to go for dual subs, it makes more sense for me to get dual because its going to provide even base all through the room.

Initially i was really attracted towards the SVS and the HSU, because i have been reading up on the topics and have found out that they are the two most favorites on this forum website.  I am still considering them though, for some reason i can't let them go off my list.

I am also getting very good feedback about the submersive, but the specs say its a 15" with a 1000w amp.  Its not really attracting me towards it because i think the ED A7S-450s are better than the submersive because of their 18" design with a 1300w amp, so for me they are more powerful than the submersive....? IDK, i might be wrong.

Similarly, the P7-650s are only 13" each. 

 

Finally, the Dragons.. are only powered by 600rms. So i am not feeling strong about them either.

I might be totally wrong on my assumptions, please correct me wherever i am wrong.

Thank you


Whatever i go with, i just won't be able to wait for them to be placed on each side of my 50 inch!
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#14
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Not to steer you away from the ED (I've only heard good things about them), I have to say that size and watts are only part of the equation.  Don't get suckered in by marketing. 

Again, the sub you are looking at will not doubt be a great sub.  This is just a more general FYI, if you know what I mean.


*Misleading marketing and sales folks are pet peeves of mine
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#15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl View Post


Whatever i go with, i just won't be able to wait for them to be placed on each side of my 50 inch!


Do yourself a favor now and start reading about proper sub placement and calibration.  Just plopping them down where they look 'cool' or 'best' may not be the best place for good sound.  Sometimes we are forced to make compromises, but it helps to know what they are going in.


Here's a good page to get you started:  http://www.robbroy.net/HT/SubwooferErrors.cfm
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#16
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Here are some pics of the current setup. -subwoofer.






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#17
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What would I use?  None of the above.  I'm a DIY guy.  My current system uses a pair of 15" TC-3000 drivers, each in a 3cf sealed enclosure.  They are driven by a Behringer EP-2500 amp.  If I can find the time (I've been working on them for over a year) I'll install my infinite baffle sub.  It will have quad, custom 18" drivers powered by the EP-2500.  And by custom, I mean TC Sounds TC-9/eD A series motor structures coupled to Scott Atwell (Fi Car Audio owner) designed recone kits.

I have never heard any of the subs that you listed.  I based my decision on good sub design as well as the guys behind the design - Stephen Ponte, Ben Miln, Chad Kuypers, Mark Seaton, Dan Wiggins, Dr. Hsu, Scott Atwell, etc.

-Robert
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#18
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How true is this...?

Quote:
With his budget he could actually do an LMS build.

The Audiopulse LMS sub is the best driver on the planet for home theater that I'm aware of.

In the right box it is super flat to very deep frequencies with very high volumes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J View Post

What would I use?  None of the above.  I'm a DIY guy.  My current system uses a pair of 15" TC-3000 drivers, each in a 3cf sealed enclosure.  They are driven by a Behringer EP-2500 amp.  If I can find the time (I've been working on them for over a year) I'll install my infinite baffle sub.  It will have quad, custom 18" drivers powered by the EP-2500.  And by custom, I mean TC Sounds TC-9/eD A series motor structures coupled to Scott Atwell (Fi Car Audio owner) designed recone kits.

I have never heard any of the subs that you listed.  I based my decision on good sub design as well as the guys behind the design - Stephen Ponte, Ben Miln, Chad Kuypers, Mark Seaton, Dan Wiggins, Dr. Hsu, Scott Atwell, etc.

-Robert


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#19
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Where did you get that recommendation on the LMS?  Have you been hanging out at the Shack or AVS?

Yes, the LMS is an awsome sub as are all that come from TC Sounds/Audiopulse.  If you decide to go the DIY route just let me know.

-Robert
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#20
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I'm only familiar with SVS, Hsu, and Seaton subs so I can't comment on the others.  However, I currently own an SVS PB12 Plus/2 and love it.  It is very deep and clear, and vibrates the hell out of my room when it needs to.  I can without a doubt recommend SVS and know you'll get a great product. 

I haven't heard the Hsu you've listed, but I've heard a couple of different subs from them and know that they are quality subs as well and you probably wouldn't be disappointed going that route either.

I've listened to the Submerssive in four different theaters and have always been impressed with it.  That thing can produce some nice bass!  That last meet I went to had one set up in a music room showing off Mark's new Sparks and the Submerssive handled all of the lower frequencies and blended in perfectly with the Sparks.  We stood a dime and nickel on end on top of the cabinet while it was blasting away and they didn't fall over.  (I wish I had my vid cam with me for that, my phone cam's vid is terrible.)  Mark is a great guy, really enthusiastic about his field, makes great stuff, and I can easily recommend the Submerssive.  If I were to upgrade my SVS, I'd probably go with the Submerssive or maybe the Terraforms. 

I know I didn't help you pick one, but I just wanted you to know that you'll be happy going with either of these three brands for sure, especially SVS or Seaton since I have a lot of experience with these two brands.

Or if you have the time, DIY is a great route to go as well, like Robert says. 

Edit:  If you're interested I posted the vid of the coin thing on my Youtube page.  (Can get there through my sig.)
Edited by George_W_K - 7/11/2009 at 09:46 am GMT
Edited by George_W_K - 7/11/2009 at 09:46 am GMT
Youtube video of my home-theater set-up.  July 2009.  Check it out.
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