Upgrading....Need Advice

#1

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7/5/09 at 7:29am

KDRDoc
Brian
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Hi all,

I am moving into a new home and the prior owners had a Bose system - they left us the outdoor Bose speakers and hanging wires from the interior speakers, and a Bose amp.

My wife is tired of the large-ish speakers of our current system - a circa 1994 Onkyo THX system (5.1) and is pushing for a replacement.

We visited the local Bose store to find out about the amp and speakers - salesperson was pushing the V30. My wife liked the smaller speakers...

Need some help coming up with a system - I am thinking of finally replacing the receiver & speakers / sub
Budget is ~$3k, close to the cost quoted by the Bose person.

Thanks for the advice in advance....

-Doc

#2

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7/5/09 at 12:34pm

David Willow
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Hi Brian,

Forget Bose. Too expensive and under performs. Check out offerings from HSU, SVS and Axiom (http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic-accent-400.html). For the receiver, look at getting something like the Onkyo 607.

Be aware that very small setups like these will not produce the best sound. Bose sounds good in demos because they completely control the environment in their demos (room, material, etc). Once you get them in your house, the sound suffers. If you could compromise with bigger bookshelf speakers you will get the best of both worlds. Check these out:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
http://www.axiomaudio.com/epicgrandmaster_main.html

My Home Theater
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Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)

#3

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7/5/09 at 1:30pm

Ed Moxley
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I agree with David. Stay far away from Bose. You and your wife read this honest review of Bose, http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html. You can do much better..........
If you must have smaller speakers, than the bookshelves David linked to, checkout the Orb system: http://www.orbaudio.com/
Good luck!

Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...

#4

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7/5/09 at 7:11pm

JohnRice
John Rice
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The one and only situation where Bose is acceptable, if grossly overpriced, is with background music, so having Bose outside is actually OK. Otherwise, for more attentive listening and movie watching, go elsewhere.

They flutter behind you, your possible pasts.
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.

#5

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7/5/09 at 8:02pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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Thanks for the advice and reading materials - I had challenged the salesperson about the ability of the small cube speakers to generate sound properly and for the system to provide good response - she said "well, Dr. Bose is a genius!" (I gave up trying to get more info at that point)

Can I drive the outdoor Bose speakers without harming my old (or hopefully new) reciever?

#6

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7/5/09 at 8:21pm

Stephen Tu
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A few more possibilities if the wife is really insistent on smaller size speakers:

Boston Acoustics CS2310
Hsu Research Performance 2
Klipsch HDT-1000 or HDT-500
Energy Take Classic

These are all slightly bigger than the Bose (search MFG web sites to get exact dimensions), but smaller than the large bookshelves David linked to.

#7

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7/5/09 at 8:58pm

gene c
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I've heard all but the Klipsch speakers Stephen mentioned and they would all be an improvement over the Bose. The Boston CS2310 is currently available from TheNerds.com for $450 shipped. Or you can get 4 of the CS23 small bookshelves, a CS225 center for $216 shipped and then get an SVS/SHU sub. But you better decide quickly because the stock is dwindling. Also, no returns. You buy them, you keep them. But those CS23's put out a pretty full sound for their size. My brother is using them for surrounds.,

"Everyday room": Mitsubishi 52631 RPTV, H/K 520, H/K dvd-5, H/K 8380, H/K CDR 20, OPPO BDP-83 BluRay player, Dish-HD, Infinity Beta 20's-C250-OWS1's, Dayton HSU10.
"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65HM167 RPTV, Pioneer Elite 59txi, Elite DV59avi, Elite CD-59, Pioneer PD-51FD BR, Dish-DVR, Swan Diva...

#8

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7/6/09 at 5:59pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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Convinced the wife to go with me to a local audio store - we listened to several small satellites (similar to the Bose) and kept moving up due to sound quality we ended up really liking B&W 685?

Got a price for 2 B&W 685, 2 B&W 686 and B&W HTM61 and a sub from Velodyne DEQ10 - for $2000

Wife was OK with their size....

#9

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7/6/09 at 7:19pm

David Willow
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Awesome! B&W are among my favorite speakers.

For about the same price as the Velodyne you can get an SVS PB12 - http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm. Also, don't be afraid to deal with the sales person. I was able to get a deal on B&W for over 20% off the list price.

My Home Theater
Our DVD Collection
Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)

#10

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7/7/09 at 9:22am

KDRDoc
Brian
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OK - so what about receivers?

I've had Onkyo's in the past (including my current THX 5.1 system from the 90's)

What would you all reccomend?

The audio store reccomendded the Pioneer Elite SC-25?....Denon?

Cost is open - say $1500 ish

#11

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7/7/09 at 9:55am

David Willow
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Onkyo 876 or above. Pioneers are well respected and excellent quality, but I really like the Audyssey EQ that comes with Onkyo and Denon.

My Home Theater
Our DVD Collection
Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)

#12

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7/7/09 at 10:50am

Jeff Gatie
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I concur with David. I've owned both Onkyo and Denon, and would recommend the Onkyo 876 or the Denon 3808CI for your budget.

#13

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7/8/09 at 8:33pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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So what would be a better choice the Onkyo 876 or the Pioneer SC-27/25 with the B&W's?

I really liked the THX on my old HT so I'd like to keep that...will the B&W's be OK with a THX receiver?

I've seen some threads with video issues on some Onkyo models....

#14

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7/8/09 at 8:49pm

David Willow
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Brian,

There are issues with every receiver. Not sure what video issue threads you seen, but I know there are many happy Onkyo owners (including me).

Again, IMHO, the Audyssey in the Onkyo wins hands down.

My Home Theater
Our DVD Collection
Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)

#15

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7/18/09 at 3:49pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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Ok - I've decided to go with the TX-NR906 from Onkyo.

Not sure if I got a good deal or not....less than 1400...

From an authorized dealer...

#16

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7/18/09 at 11:19pm

werty7777
Martin
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Unsure why you want the 906 versus the 876. I just got my 876 a month ago for 900 bucks. Are you going to use the networking? For me with all things considered the only major difference was networking and imho the extra cost wasn't worth it. You looked at the 876?

#17

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7/21/09 at 6:10pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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Mainly for the networking - I don't upgrade frequently (last audio purchase was early90's) want to be able to use with my server.

Unless you guys know a better way?

#18

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7/21/09 at 7:14pm

Stephen Tu
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I'd rather go for a Logitech Squeezebox Duet or Roku soundbridge than networking in a receiver. I think the UI on dedicated devices is usually better, easier to upgrade later if necessary, & manufacturers add stuff more often.

I'm not even sure it's worth it for the 876 vs. cheaper 706 for the top notch video processing. Depends what TV you have I suppose, and if you will upgrade it anytime soon. I'd personally prefer sinking the money into a better TV to begin with (or reserve for future upgrade), with good built-in video processing, obviating the need for processing in the AV receiver.

#19

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7/21/09 at 8:00pm

werty7777
Martin
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I would have to say that the best purchase I have made for my system is the 876. I had a 5200ES and I know how people feel about Sony, but with that said the better video processor was worth every penny I spent. Reon versus Faroudja? Reon has my money HANDS DOWN! So the price and features for the 876 versus the 706? 876 for me 10 out of 10 times. I have a 73" DLP so video is key but audio is always a must.

#20

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7/21/09 at 8:04pm

werty7777
Martin
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Oh and I agree with Stephen about the networking thoughts!

#21

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7/22/09 at 7:55pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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Thanks - we will likely upgrade the 34" 16x9 TUBE we have as well

Thanks for the thoughts on the networking....

Edited by KDRDoc - 7/30/2009 at 12:28 pm GMT

#22

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7/30/09 at 5:33am

KDRDoc
Brian
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- Got a potential deal for the 906 for 1250...is that good?

Also, convinced the wife to also upgrade the TV - thinking the G10 Panny....and a decent Blue Ray...

Got an odd comment that shot up my BS radar - I was told that I will be better off keeping the Blue Ray & HDTV the same brand....oh and that LCDs are better for 1080/24.

I don't want an argument over LCD/Plasma - but just a sanity check

#23

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7/30/09 at 8:39am

Jeff Gatie
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Quote:

Originally Posted by KDRDoc

Got an odd comment that shot up my BS radar - I was told that I will be better off keeping the Blue Ray & HDTV the same brand....oh and that LCDs are better for 1080/24.

Not totally BS, just mostly. Some manufacturers have proprietary systems that link components across their model line, so a Sony TV may turn on a Sony BD player when you switch to the BD players input on the TV. That kind of stuff. I personally say the heck with it, just buy a Harmony remote!

#24

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7/30/09 at 12:40pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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He was referring to using a Sony BD with a Sony HDTV indicating it was the only way to ensure proper playback...

#25

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7/30/09 at 12:53pm

Jeff Gatie
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Quote:

Originally Posted by KDRDoc

He was referring to using a Sony BD with a Sony HDTV indicating it was the only way to ensure proper playback...

What he was indicating is he's an idiot, or he's a salesman misleading the customer into an up-purchase to a higher margin item. Probably told you Monster Cables will give a much better HDMI picture right after that.

#26

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7/30/09 at 1:44pm

Stephen Tu
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Anything you hear from an electronics salesman should be assigned only 50% probability of actually being true

.

#27

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7/31/09 at 7:27am

JohnRice
John Rice
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Quote:

Originally Posted by KDRDoc

He was referring to using a Sony BD with a Sony HDTV indicating it was the only way to ensure proper playback...

That's just simple minded salesmanship. I suspect something like a bundling incentive, where he gets a spiff, probably from Sony, if he sells a TV and player together. Either that or just hoping he will snow you into buying more stuff from him, rather than looking around for a player.

Personally, probably the only BR player I would buy is the Oppo.

They flutter behind you, your possible pasts.
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.

#28

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8/4/09 at 7:58pm

KDRDoc
Brian
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I ended up going with the Onkyo 876 & a Panny BD-80

Thinking of going with the Panasonic TC-P50G10 - any thoughts?

#29

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8/4/09 at 8:08pm

David Willow
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Check out the "Display Devices" section of this forum. There's a thread going on there with some great info on DLP tvs. If you have the room (don't require flat panel), you can get a much bigger TV for less money that has a very nice picture.

My Home Theater
Our DVD Collection
Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)

#30

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8/4/09 at 9:47pm

Yokiebear
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Hi KDR Doc,

How much did you get your Onkyo 876 for and where?

I have a total budget of $1800 for speakers and receiver but I might convice the wife to increase the amount.

Regarding Onkyo receiver features: I know that David recommended the Audyssey feature but what were the other requirements that sold you on the system.

I remember some mentioning to look for a receiver with high output wattage for clearer, crisper sound - 100W or more - is that more BS talk?

Thanks

Joe

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