*** Official TRANSFORMERS: REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Discussion Thread

No way this turkey makes it to $450M.  Even with that monster opening, I think it'll die before $400M.  This weekend will tell the tale.

I hope you're right, but I don't know.  I don't think there's any real competition this weekend and people seem to be enjoying it overall.

When I saw Dead Man's Chest a few years ago, I was sure it would drop off the following weekend and sink like a stone, but it persevered.

I have a feeling this will continue too, but I hope I'm wrong.

Well I'm sure it will drop somewhat, but I doubt it will be enough to satisfy the need of so many on this forum.  Seems many of you are way to invested in a film you don't like.

I read an article the other day that said in a poll 95% of people leaving the movie said it was as good or better than the first.  It's going to make money, get over it and calm down.

Yep. I hated it but I don't care if it makes $700 million or it never makes another dime. That being said, it's going to be the or one of the biggest hits of the year no matter what I think.

I'm calm.  Just bummed that such a giant turd can rake it in.  That's all.

Yeah...I'm with you 100%.  This movie isn't nearly on the garbage level of VH.  That is a sure thing all-time benchmark for crappiness.
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I don't have a problem with long movies; on the contrary. I think any GOOD movie should be at least two hours long. I breezed through the King Kong remake (at 3:14) and enjoyed every second of it without even being conscious of how long it was because it's such a great film IMO. There was something about Transformers 2 that I knew I didn't like but couldn't quite figure out at the time but someone on this forum mentioned it: this flick was just plain dull! It's something thats affecting alot of these tentpole movies, including the third Pirates. Its not so much that the plots are overwrought or overcomplicated-its just that they're boring. Halfway through these things I just can't bring myself to care for what's unfolding on the screen, the characters, anything.

A few things about this movie.

First, this isn't directed (maybe it is, but shoudn't be) at kids.  This is derived from a cartoon that came out 25 years ago.  It's directed at 30-somethings.  Don't like the dialogue?  Good, the adults in the crowd don't want your kids there any more than you want them to hear it.

Second, this is a movie designed to be fun and relatively mindless.  Anyone expecting anything else needs to read the title of the movies they stumble into.

Third, the "racism" thing is old.  Really, really old.  Anyone that thinks that some people don't talk like the robot brothers is either a super-lib, or is firmly ensconced in the milktoast suburbs where they aren't typically exposed to anyone other than white folks.

Done.  Everyone relax and try to enjoy the movie.

If you think this movie is directed at 30 year olds, I implore you to take a walk down the toy aisle in any department store.  You'll see Transformers figures, masks, bed spreads, towels, backpacks and lunchboxes. 

I don't know how many 30 year olds are too keen on having any of that stuff.

Also, to your point about a movie that is supposed to fun and relatively mindless - that does not excuse BAD filmmaking.  The lack of story, non-existent character arcs and a dreadful length are just some of the things wrong here.  Something like last summer's Iron Man was light and, for the most part, mindless.  But it was a good film with a tight script and solid acting.  There's a difference.  The whole "it's a popcorn movie" argument is often thrown around to excuse a movie's flaws, but there's just too much wrong with Revenge of the Fallen to even begin.

 

Im sure Hasbro would disagree! This should be the primary audience for the film. I am all for making it enjoyable for adults too but the main market for this should surely be the 5 year old-11 year olds.

 

Michael Bay knows how to make mindless fun action movies - he has done so before. But not here!

 

 

(How the heck do you quote only part of a post now?)

Re: the part about the toys etc, there's a whole group pf people out there that want those things, they're called nerds and i'm proudly one of them.

I know, I'm the same way with the G.I. Joe re-issues. 

Once again, the toy department doesn't have someone in your demographic in mind as its typical customer.

The toy department might not but I can guarentee you that the toy company does. It would be a fool to market only to children when it should know that in this day and age those figures are highly loved by young and old.

I've never seen toy commercials in a non-kids show, and I've never seen 30 year olds wandering around the toy dept. (unless, of course, they were parents).

I would argue that your not looking hard enough.

Seriously, there's a whole market that gears action figures and toys towards 20 and 30 somethings, companies like Sideshow, Gentle Giant, McFarlane Toys and NECA are just some examples and to a lesser extent Hasbro.

Look at how toys and figures have evolved over the years from simple twists in the original generation 1 toys to very complex transformations of the new designs (shit, you need a degree in engeneering to transform the Ultimate Bumblebee figure!), that's for us, the detail oriented individuals who want as close of a replica of the character that we can possibly get in plastic form.

Children certaintly don't really care that a toy looks exactly like the one in the film, they just want something cool to play with from the movie, that extra level of detail is for a mature buyer who does desire that and this case we get the best of both worlds, we get cool toys for kids to play with and we also get the level of detail to satisfy the older collectors.

That's where we come in so yes I do believe that this stuff is geared towards older people as well, the commercials may not out right say it but it's obvious to me anyway.


Edited by Inspector Hammer! - 7/6/2009 at 10:46 pm GMT
Edited by Inspector Hammer! - 7/6/2009 at 10:48 pm GMT

I have all the G1 re-issues from a few years back plus the 20th anniversary Optimus Prime. They weren't priced with kids in mind compared to other toys in the Transformers line. Same goes for the new toys based on the movies. They come in different difficulty levels at different price points.


It's not really any different from plastic model kits.

Besides, Hasbro'd be dumb not to at least partially target the people who grew up on Transformers in the 1980sThey have a nostalgia for the toyline but want something more complex.

to all of the toys for adults supporters:

i am quite sure that the market share for that demographic is quite small given the entire scope of what a toy company like hasbro has projected in toy sales.

the types of toys that many of you are referring to are a niche market at best.  kind of like the equipment that many of us run is niche and a very small part of the overall ht market.

this movie failed to be kid friendly. although i am quite sure that hasbro had every intent to sell as many toys as possible to the kids that did endure this movie.  but lets not be ridiculous and think that hasbro or mcfarlane toys is banking on millions of adults to buy complex niche market toys in order to pad their bottom line.   in this country, generally speaking, toys and comics are for kids.  if this were japan i might give someone a little more leeway in that argument.

and this is coming from someone who still reads comics and manga.

Yeah, I think comics are in danger since it's all old guys and nobody coming up to replace them.  And, I don't buy toys, but the McFarlane toys I've seen are definitely aimed at adults.  They're too expensive and detailed to really be played with.  There's a $300 Iron Man that I know hardly anyone is going to buy for their child.  Those are the types of toys that would be sold in a comic shop, and Travis is right about kids being a rarity in one of those.

i dont think anyone disagrees that there is a market for adult buyers -star wars and lord of the rings being 2 obvious other examples but the main buyers are going to be kids and Bay seems to forget this. from what i remember of the first film there were similar issues but they were limited to shots of megan fox and a couple of jokes anyway its done and i hope that perhaps they consider this next time. i hate the films but my friend's 6 year old loves the first one and he is disappointed because his dad wont let him go and see it now.

I don't know where he is coming from but I think most of the stuff that someone would find inappropriate for a kid would fly right past them (is a kid really going to get a robot testicles 'joke'?). I'm certainly not telling anyone what is and isn't appropriate for their children but I don't think there's much difference between the two movies so if he's seen the first one, he might as well be allowed to see the second one as well.

I let both my kids see the first and they both saw the second one. I liked them both but I think the second one had a lot more profanity. There are many people I know that would not be comfortable letting their 5 -10 year old kids watch this movie. I know, I know.  "It says it is PG-13" -- I call bullshit on that because this is aimed at children. Don't believe me? Watch Spongebob and see how many commercials you see for it.

well it is pg13 and he made the decision not to let him see it. it wasnt the jokes which probably would have flown over his head it was more the way in which the film dealt with the 2 main female roles especially the female transformer - i think it was far more overtly sexual than the previous one in some scenes PG13 is the right rating its just a shame he cant make one with a lower rating since most buyers of the toys are going to be under 13

Simon I wished they toned the movie down a little too. I found the fighting scenes were find since it was robot on robot but the profanity and sexual tones could have been removed without hurting the movie at all. Many people thought the story sucked and I don't believe anyone thinks those things are what saved or helped the movie.

The story was fine. It was basic, it was simple, and it reminded me of the cartoon a bit.

It was the obscenely long final battle that made the film drag out. They could have eliminated the whole Constructicon portion of the battle and a couple of the robots-punching-robots shots and it would have been just about right.


I'm not sure its fair to equate a toy line with the movie itself. There has always been ancillary merchandise available for younger audiences than the primary product has been targeted for, long before any Transformers movies.

I agree the final battle did go on a bit but it made up for the fact there wasn't that much action in the rest of the film, considering it's Michael Bay and 150mins long, so I can't really complain about it.

The Chinese have gone nuts over the film, it's beaten Titanic as the highest grossing film ever -


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090717/ap_en_mo/as_china_transformers2_7


And the film has so far grossed $727m in 22 days, according to Box Office Mojo.

Finally saw this last night. Military porn at its finest. I know Bay has had a love affair going with the military, but he took it to a whole other level in this film. I got a few chuckles from some of the humour, but most of it made my eyes roll. I know a lot of criticism regarding racial stereotypes has been leveled at the "twins". Personally, I didn't find them racist. I just found them to be tediously infantile and annoying. The movie just felt like it suffered filmic constipation every time they showed up. The character I that I did think bordered on racist was the black butcher with the bad teeth. For some reason, I felt that was more offensive than the "twins" robots, who were just plain stupid.  I also didn't get why Bay decided that it was a good idea to up the level of obscene language in the film. For the most part, the language just felt misplaced; although, I did get a few laughs out of the scene where she used the torch on the RC-bot, and he had a few choice words for her.  The characterization for the mother was just cringe inducing. I actually felt embarassed for the actress who had to deliver that shit.

The big fight scene was long, but I didn't mind it so much because I felt like I needed some sort of pay off for having to endure Bay's infantile sense of humour. The fight at the end at least delivered in that respect.