Mr. Ed LIVES!

By this time, Shout surely knows that knowledgable fans of classic TV don't like, and will not buy, cut episodes.

Therefore, I can only theorize that their marketing dept. (if they have one) has probably determined that the loss in sales isn't as great as the expense would be to find and/or restore complete episodes.

It would be great if someone from the company would explain this to us.  All I know for sure is that I was looking forward to this set, and now I'm not getting it.

I checked the list of episodes on the Best of Mister Ed volume 1 released by MGM. It contains 7 episodes from season 1 out of the 26 produced. From the Shout season 1 set it has become known that 8 episodes are shorter (or syndicated prints), mostly from the beginning of the season.

So MGM included 26% of the episodes from season 1 and Shout ended up with 30% of their episodes being truncated. None of the episodes Shout released as syndicated are included in the MGM release. If it were a random event you would have to think that one or two of those episodes might have shown up on the MGM release. And if truncated it would have been an MGM issue, if not it would have been an MGM/Shout mixup.

Based on this I think it is quite possible MGM new exactly what they had that was ready and available to be included. Quite possibly they decided to go with "Best Of" collections not only to try the market but because they wanted to stick with uncut episodes.

It is quite possible MGM released what they knew fans wanted which were uncut episodes. However, restricting it to "Best Of" sets so they could meet the demand. Then fans clamor for full season sets, so they license out to Shout giving them what they had which was a mix of cut and uncut episodes.

This just sounds to me like MGM and Shout doing what they can with what they have available. You can take that for what it is worth and support it with the idea you have a better chance of future releases (of most likely the same), or you can complain and not support it and end up with no more seasons.

In a few cases, it seems complaining has had a impact, but in the majority it just means no more seasons. I think no sales in this case means no more episodes. Therefore, I think I will support the release. And if no more seasons appear I will try to locate any left over "Best Of" sets.

Thanks Joe and Brad for your thoughts on the Mister Ed Season 1 release.

If we are getting the only available episodes, then I guess I have to live with that and I eventually buy the season 1 set for what it is. However, if this is another example of a studio's lack of concern for the completeness of the release, then if I buy it, it will be at a significant discount or used. 

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I think this is where I come down with this release as well.  If it were MGM putting it out and I knew for sure they could have given us 100%, completely uncut episodes across the board I'd be more inclined to protest by not purchasing.  But I still think Shout just goes with what they are given when renting out these series.  That's not to say they don't deserve some amount of criticism when this type of thing happens.  But I just don't believe they can be held to exactly the same standard as the major studios.  The bottom line for me is that I'll probably end up buying this set, but only if and when I can get it for a major discount.

Gary "this entire issue of both cut and uncut prints showing up in releases continues to baffle me" O.

I feel the same way, Gary. Where is the flaw in the process that allows cut episodes to end up on Classic TV show releases? And why doesn't somebody fix it?

With Shout, I am glad they have released Mister Ed, as well as others like The Patty Duke Show, Mchale's Navy, FKB, but I want them to do their releases right with full length episodes, no edts, etc., on each release, provided these episodes exist. When they don't do that, they are losing money, at least from me.

A licensing situation shouldn't cloud the trail. The end result is that edited episodes stand in place of full episodes, which is unacceptable with or without licensees.

It may be that simple or not. Unfortunately, they rarely let the consumer know what is going on. Too bad DVD's don't fall under the same scrutiny for labeling as some other products. As such, I can sort of understand their reluctance to acknowledge such issues if they don't have to for fear of scaring away potential sales for something the average consumer might not notice. However, full disclosure in a forum such as this couldn't hurt if the results had some justification. At least it would remove any inaccurate speculation.

Anyone that has seen the latest Star Trek TOS and watched the extra on the remastering process knows what can be done if the potential revenue is high enough. Now not many vintage shows fall into that category (luckily some don't need the same level of restoration).

So when we end up with results that are less then expected, one has to wonder if someone unnecessarily dropped the ball, someone was being too cheap, or if what we got was justified based on what was available and the expected revenue to make it worth even attempting.

In this case, the prints seem acceptable and no known music replacements (that I know of), but some cut episodes included. If there was a reasonable reason for cut episodes, such as the originals have been lost or were in such bad shape as to be unpresentable or too costly to restore then it would circumvent a lot of bad press if they would just come clean from the get go, and may even garner some respect for what was received.

While I think they do just screw up sometimes, I also think they may be justified in others. Of course they rarely seem to open up about anything of this nature so it's always hard to know which it is. So the speculation continues.

Knowing now that this release has some butched-up episodes, I have decided to wait when it comes to purchasing this set. I was going to buy it right off the bat on release day but it's not worth getting it at the asking price ($33 on Amazon as of 10/04/09) with it being an edited DVD set. With edited episodes, the asking price should be MUCH LOWER than $33 and I am willing to wait for it to drop down to what I think is a fair and reasonable deal. I hope Shout! Factory keeps this in mind when they come to release the remaining seasons of this beloved classic television series.

I still have yet to purchase season 1 of Rhoda. That DVD release is just chalk full of edited episodes. And even though the price for this DVD set has dropped down some, it is still not down enough for me to buy it.

I hate to debunk your theory but Columbia House got uncut episodes not featured on the MGM DVDs like the Dodgers episode.

Someone screwed up at MGM and SHOUT! didn't catch it -honest mistake.

Oh, the uncut masters went "missing" and it wasn't realized till AFTER SHOUT! got the rights, and they had to deal with it.

I'm more then happy to be debunked. Anything to get more information that would make it all easier to understand. Although I don't believe I ever said the MGM best of collections were the only uncut episodes. The question is whether any of the episode that appeared cut in the season one release were previously released uncut? Are you saying they were by Columbia House?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like this sort of thing happens frequently with TV/DVD releases.... a studio gets feedback from customers about edited episodes, or they don't research the prints that they obtain from a major studio rights owner.  It's a shame that this happens.
 

Brad, you hit the target as far as I'm concerned.  It's the lack of communication for customers that is a problem for us. 

Jeff, this behavior would be a bit more understandable from a big studio since they typically see no need for communicating with the little guy. But especially from the smaller companies, you would think they would at least get it. I obviously have no idea if it was just a mixup or if this was the best of what was available. But you would have to think that they at least realized what they had at some point in the process.

It's all about managing expectations, plain and simple. People tend to be more tolerant when they knows what going on. To just push something out with flaws to this crowd with no explanation, or to play ignorant is any easy way to lose loyalty and business. I recall when Timeless put out the word that they were searching for episodes of the Texan in an attempt to put together a complete series set. I can respect the effort and had no complaints when eight or so episodes ended up missing. A little communication to please a fan base can go along way.

And, for example, with a little communication perhaps decent, intact copies of the cut Rhoda or Mr. Ed episodes could have been found for DVD use.

Been out of town for a couple of days, but I wanted to echo what Brad and Jeff have been saying.  Bottom line, we don't know the processes nor the terms of the agreement that Shout and MGM have in regards to this rental of MR. ED.  I still say you have to cut the little guys more slack than the major studios because it's not Shout's vault and it's not Shout's own property we are talking about.  On top of that, they definitely don't have the finances nor the machines/people necessary to do the remastering work themselves, so they really do have to take what is given to them.

Now, if someone wants to say Shout shouldn't take the deal at all unless the company they are renting from can supply them with pristine, uncut prints to begin with then so be it.  I won't argue with you.  But just keep this in mind.  If the studio in question has pristine, uncut prints to begin with it's probably doubtful they are going to rent the show out to Shout when they could just release it themselves at that point.  I imagine the thought from the majors is that since the show isn't remastered it's easier for them to rent it out to Shout and get just a small cut back from a property they own but don't want to spend restoration finances on.  It just stands to reason that's what is going on.

Is it possible wrong prints are pulled from studio vaults as well?  I'm sure it has happened before and will unfortunately happen again.  And IF (and that's a big "if") that's what happened here - if MGM had pristine, uncut prints for every 1st Season episode and some yahoo just pulled the wrong episodes in a few cases - if that's what happened then Shout should bear a bit of the blame because they could/should have noticed that and inquired back to MGM to get better prints for those 8 episodes.  Problem is we don't know if that's what happened.  People can conjecture all day long but until the studios - all of them - start being more open with their info we will never know who's really to blame.  And that's also the perfect point that Brad and Jeff made.  Studio disclosure, or lack thereof, is just about the biggest problem I have with the entire industry.  One would need 007 on the case in order to get the answers we need for this mystery.

Gary "I'll eventually pick this up - but it will need to be at a major discount first" O.

I bought the set and I noticed the cuts.  However, Given the fact that MGM obviously didnt care to release the series in full (Because if they did they would have done it instead of the best of sets) And given the fact that there was a lawsuit involving Mr Ed brought  by the Estate of Walter Brooks, Im Happy it came out and I will take what I can get

Gary I agree I'll pick it up but not at $35 they want that kind of money from me give me a uncut set, under $20 is what i'm looking for for this set.

wait a month or two and some seller at Amazon will offer it at a reduced price

Yeah, it's easy to figure out how it happened. No one at Shout knows what they are doing. They are clueless. And they have no quality control. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that you have shows that come in at 25:30 and then a few that are way shorter to realize something is wrong. Believe me, uncut tape transfers exist as they have aired in various places. Fox grabs whatever is easiest to reach on the shelf and sends it to Shout, who then doesn't bother to check. You would think after this has happened over and over that they might get a clue. No such luck.

No, you wanna know who doesn't know what they are doing, are clueless, and have no quality control whatsoever? CBS, and their ever-growing refusal to listen to fans over music edits, especially after the Fugitive debacle.

CBS and Shout Factory are BOTH clueless.

I have compared the cut episode of "The Contest" (22:00) with the uncut version (25:30) and noticed because the syndicated cut version has been speeded up it is ony missing 90 seconds of footage instead of the full 3 and a 1/2 minutes.

So, are all the "cut" episodes time-sped?

If so, that's closer to uncut than we thought.

I didn't buy the set.  I just rented one disc from Netflix so I couldn't compare them all.  My guess is since the cut episodes all came from the same source (syndicated prints) the cut episodes are probably all sped up.  The uncut episodes are not rare since they aired on TV land in the mid 90's.  I would think most Mr. Ed fans who had a satellite dish 12 years ago probably have them.  Why shout factory didn't have them is anybody's guess.