Is a show Public Domain?

Every now and then a Rumor will come out that says a Show has become Public Domain, which basically means anybody who has a copy may legally copy and distribute it in whatever manner they please. Yesterday I received such a Rumor concerning a certain World War II Drama. Naturally I am treating it with a grain of salt, because past experience has taught me that 90 percent of whatever Scuttlebutt I hear on the Grapevine is Baloney , and of the remaining 10 percent, 90 percent is GROSSLY Exagerated!

Nevertheless I have to ask, is there a way to find out IF a certain Shoe has indeed become Public Domain? Such a Database will certainly make the differance between purchasing a Legitamate Copy or a Bootleg.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

In most cases it doesn't matter. If the original is copy protected, then breaking copy protection is the problem. No matter what the copyright is on the content, circumventing the copy protection scheme is against the law. IN 99% of the cases, bootlegs are illegal. Period.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

In 100% of cases, bootlegs are illegal -- by definition. If it's not illegal, it's not a bootleg.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Thank you Capt. Obvious.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

A simple search online at the Library of Congress website will give you your answer most of the time. In some instances, not, as they do not have every single copyrighted show listed on their site.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

I went to the Library of Congress, unfortunately WHERE DO I GO FROM THERE? I Keyed in the name of that rumored TV Show, only to get something about a Christmas Carol.

Any Suggestions?

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Perhaps it would help if we actually knew WHAT SHOW you're actually talking about. What's with the secrecy ?

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

The show is 12 o Clock High. Someone mentioned on Amazon.com's Blog that this show is now Public Domain. (Bear in mind I am treating this as a FALSE RUMOR unless I get word from a Reliable Source that it is otherwise). I have heard many other Rumors about other shows, the rumors have turned out to be False. One website says they have "Official Versions" but I DO NOT TRUST THEM! (Besides they are asking a Price for each Season that makes SKY KING look like a Wally World Bargain Binner!)

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Bootlegs are illegal ... period. It's why they're are bootlegs. That's just a simple way of saying smuggle.

Also don't believe the rumors. 99% of the time they're not true.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

WebVoyage

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Just to clarify, a bootleg is something that has copyright owners that is released without their involvement. They shouldn't be discussed.

Something in the public domain has had the copyright expire or not renewed (usually as an accident). It doesn't mean that it is free to make copies of. Most of the time, the makers of the film or TV series would have rather have kept the rights. It means that, legally, there is nothing they can do about it.

While I'm not familiar with 12 O'CLOCK HIGH, according to the IMDB, it was produced by 20th Century Fox and Quinn Martin. So, it is very doubtful that it is in the public domain.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

The pinned topic only says that the discussion of websites that sell that material are prohibited, not general discussion. As long as websites aren't named, is what I get from the pinned topic.

This particular topic creator wanted to know if there was a resource on how to tell the difference. You can tell because they only make it available as a complete series.

The one way you can be sure is to only buy from websites that you trust. When in doubt just do a search for "www.thiswebsite.com complaints" and if there are any, results will pop up.

You can be sure that websites such as Amazon, Overstock, Target, Barnes and Noble, Best Buy, Borders are all reputable websites. Always do your research if you're unsure of a commerce website.

There are some sites such as:

Ripoff Report: By Consumers, For Consumers
Complaints.com - Consumers in Control
ConsumerAffairs.com: Knowledge is Power! Consumer news, reviews, complaints, resources, safety recalls
Federal Trade Commission
United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

The whole public domain thing is weird. How in the hell did some episodes of the most popular shows of the 60's (Bonanza, Beverly Hillbillies) become public domain? It never seems to make much sense.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Cute! It only goes back to 1978.

HOW DO YOU GO BACK FURTHER!

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Copyright laws vary from country to country, and since I'm not an American lawyer, my understanding of US copyright laws may be off, but IIRC registration per se does not 'create' the copyright, that subsists upon original creation of the artistic work. Registration tracks ownership, and the ability to sue infringers. This is unlike registered trademarks or patents, which do not come into existence at all without application and registration.

Also, IIRC a few years ago your Congress extended the lifetime of copyright in movies to 95 years from creation, so I daresay hardly anything of interest has had its copyright expire yet. (Ironically, some years ago I was handling an infringement action here, when copyright was still only 50 years, and one potentially problematic title was Snow White, which being created in 1937 had already passed the 50-yr mark.)

The problem then arises that in countries with shorter copyright terms (e.g. 50 yrs), something might be public domain there, yet still enjoy copyright in the US. Copies that are therefore legal there, might not be in the US. But you'll need to ask an American copyright lawyer on that (where are Messrs Reuben and Nicholls?)

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Excellent info Mark.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Mostly due to clerical errors, believe it or not. Copyright can be renewed, but you have to go through the process of renewing it. Since each episode of a TV is an individual filmed "work" it is individually copyrighted. When renewal time comes along the studio will submit a list of all the episodes for a given season (since they expire in the same year.) If someone leaves out an episode, or gets the name wrong, the copyright can expire. IIRC, there have been a few cases where the studios (or other creators) have been able to appeal and have copyright restored where they can show that a reasonable effort was made to renew.

Regards,

Joe

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

There needs to be some kind of Database available where one can look up a Title and find out if it is Public Domain or not, that needs to be easy to access. All the sites I have tried to access are so huge and complicated that it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get the Information you want. As it stand now all I have gotten is a runaround!

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Yes, but they often do carry bootlegs, without even knowing it. There are several bootleggers that release legit looking titles of films that they don't have the rights to. I noticed one title releasing next week I was interested in, until I saw it was by that company.


There are websites out there that sell public domain films to companies, but there isn't a databse.

It isn't as simple as creating a list. Often, rights to films can get renewed (IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE being an example). Many early Hitchcock films are thought by some to be in the public domain and released by countless DVD companies but as threads in the DVD section will tell you, they really aren't.

In some countries, films are owned by one company, in others, no one has the rights.

Sometimes what puts a film in the public domain is as simple as the producers forgetting to put a copyright logo and the year on the credits. That is what happened to NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD.

But to go back to the original question, a show produced by FOX isn't likely to be in the public domain.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

And the first season of Star Trek. Paramount had to go to court to reassert ownership.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

And that in itself can create ambiguity. It may be perfectly legal to continue to sell existing stocks of PD IaWL discs because they were created during a time when the copyright was not in force.

Even that suspect company you mentioned as selling bootlegs on a major website may actually own the rights to some of the titles they sell. Crooks and pirates often operate behind a legitimate front that does some legal business.

Given the fluid nature of the whole thing it would be virtually impossible to assemble and maintain a comprehensive database of this kind of operation. And who would pay for it? It would be a nice research tool for movie and TV obsessives like us, but it is hard to see why the studios would finance such a thing. Their own legal departments are supposed to keep tabs on their own stuff, and they have no reason to care about anybody else's. In theory a database could help reduce piracy by identifying bootlegs, but in practice only a tiny minority of potential buyers would ever consult it and only an even smaller number would use the information to steer clear of bad discs. (Besides, the bulk of the movie piracy problem involves actual counterfeits of real studio releases, with duplicate cover art, logs, etc, not unreleased product.)

Regards,

Joe

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Amazon is notorious for having bootlegs on their site. But they do a pretty good job of removing them (or at least leaving them up, but saying discontinued) when they are informed about it.

Your best best is to look first who is putting it out. If its a major studio, you know you are safe. If its a known independent (Shout, MPI, Magnolia, Image, etc), you're cool. If its a company you've never heard of and its a complete series, odds are its a bootleg. Also a lot of bootleggers will advertise as being "region free" - that's a huge red flag.

Also check TVShowsOnDVD.com and search for it. Gord and Dave are very good about reporting on virtually every legit R1 TV release. Search their database and if there are no stories about it, that's a good sign that you better really check into it, because its likely not legit.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Jon Martin, actually, that is incorrect. I have never heard of sites like Best Buy, Overstock, Circuit City, Amazon or any national retailer selling bootleg DVD's.

Now, if you're referring to DVD-r's that Amazon sells, those are not bootleg releases since they have an exclusive agreement to release the series to DVD-r from the studio who will release that series to DVD. Since the sets have yet to be officially manufactured, they are not bootlegs.

Now, if you're referring to Amazon's Marketplace or Overstock Auctions, then you're mistaken. These are not purchases conducted by Amazon and are second hand merchandise sold via auction-type services sold through Amazon and Overstock.

You will never, ever, purchase any bootleg merchandise that involves CD's, DVD's or other media related merchandise directly from Amazon or any other national retailer.

Now, if you purchase through Amazon Marketplace or Overstock Auctions, then you are taking your chances on receiving possible bootleg items.

The retailers I posted sell 100% legal CD and DVD's manufactured by the studios. They do not sell bootleg or pirated material.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Like David Levine said, they don't do it knowingly and when they are informed, they take them down.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Since the show you are questioning was produced in the 60s, it's copyright renewal came up after 28 years in the 90s. Which is more recently than 1978.
So, what's wrong? If the copyright was renewed, which it was, it's listed in the database. 1978 minus 28 years brings you back to any show produced from 1950 onward, pretty much back to the dawn of TV. So, for 99.9% of television, that online catalogue will work pretty well.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Hence the reason the archive begins in 1978.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

They don't KNOWINGLY sell bootleg titles, but with hundreds of DVDs being released each week, they can't check all of them. They are given product by a company that they believe is legit, and list it as if they were.

There is one company (whose name I won't mention that specializes in 80's films) that has hundreds of titles on Amazon, all bootlegs, yet Amazon lists them as if they are real releases. And not through third party, they are shipped and sold from Amazon.

Even if it is listed on Amazon, or found on the budget rack of Best Buy, it doesn't mean it is official. Look for the company that released it. If it is a name company, you are safe.

If you've heard of the film and never heard of the company, beware.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

As far as I'm concerned, The Rumor about 12 O Clock High is RUBBISH! Ok?

This isn't the first time such a rumor has surfaced, (Last year several sites were buzzing about a certain 1960s Superhero Show who's ownership is disputed by two companies) and I'm sure it won't be the last. Just Remember "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!"

For the record the previous rumor turned out to be a Book being published, which placed it in the "Grossly Exagerrated" Catigory!

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

Jon Martin, again, you are talking about Amazon's Marketplace.

Amazon.com, the online retailer, in reference to CD's and DVD's only sells authentic CD's and DVD's produced by the studios who produced or are legally authorized to produce and sell those DVD's.

Amazon Marketplace is a sub-community of individuals and other smaller retailers who sell their merchandise through Amazon.

While all purchases are conducted through Amazon.com, Amazon.com isn't responsible for merchandise sold by or posted through the Amazon.com website.

Before you bring it up, if Amazon.com doesn't normally sell a certain product or doesn't have it available for sale, an individual or smaller retailer who wants to sell a newer product, such as imported toys or imported DVD's and Amazon.com doesn't sell the item directly, then that item is placed on Amazon.com's website for sale via their Amazon Marketplace.

Jon Martin, what has happened is that you've mistaken Amazon.com for Amazon Marketplace. Here, I'll explain further. Click on the following link:

Amazon.com: Revoltech > Fraulein No.004 Pocco Action Figure: Toys & Games

Amazon Marketplace is Amazon.com's fixed-price online marketplace that allows sellers to offer their goods alongside Amazon's offerings. Buyers can buy new and used items sold directly by a third party through Amazon.com using Amazon Marketplace.

Since Amazon.com doesn't sell the item directly as a company, an individual or smaller retailer can post the item for sale on Amazon.com through the Amazon Marketplace. If you notice, the item is listed but since Amazon.com doesn't sell it directly it's sold through the seller. Click on the seller's information and you're given their Amazon Marketplace information.

This also includes bootleg DVD's. If a seller is intent on selling a bootleg DVD on Amazon, there is no way that Amazon can check the item. However, all of the merchandise that Amazon sells directly is checked and rechecked for unauthorized merchandise such as Bootlegs. Amazon doesn't not sell this kind of merchandise.

Re: Is a show Public Domain?

No, he's not. Like Jon said, they don't mean to sell bootlegs but the huge volumes of titles that they deal in makes it impossible to not make some mistakes.