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Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

#1
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6/12/09 at 6:22pm
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Sorry this is actually a modified repost from "Members Theaters and HT Projects" I realized it would actually be better suited here.

I'm currently getting started on piecing together audio gear to finish up my home theater and have run into a small bump in my choice of receiver. I had been going between getting the Onkyo 507 and the 607, and had pretty much settled on the 607 because of its slightly higher power output, ability to expand past 5.1 in the future if I eventually have the room, and most importantly the ability to bi-amp on an output.

However when I looked into it more, I found out that it was only able to bi-amp on the fronts, sadly my fronts are full range and my center is Bi-amp. So my question is, does anyone know if you are able to reconfigure the outputs to allow you to bi amp a different channel than the fronts? If not are there any other AVRs that you would recommend in this price range that has the ability to bi-amp the center?

(update)
It was also suggested by a co-worker that I take my fronts (Fisher STV-884s) and rewire them in order to separate their 15in. woofers from the mid and tweeter. He would be doing this for me, but I would still be much more comfortable leaving them intact and bi-amping my center.

Thanks.
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#2
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6/13/09 at 1:01pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

You're looking for trouble, it seems to me. First, full-range and bi-amping are two completely unrelated things. One does not preclude the other. Second, it is highly unlikely your co-worker knows what he is proposing to do. Whether or not a speaker can be bi-amped is a fundamental aspect of its design. Changing it is something like changing the foundation on your house. It may be possible, but is virtually never worth the trouble.

Most important of all, bi-amping just isn't worth it. The gain is minimal and with a modern receiver it is doubtful there is any gain. Here is a simple explanation why. Let's say you have a two way speaker. If you bi-amp it, you are simply powering the tweeter and woofer with separate amps. Great, right!?!. You just doubled your power. Not really. To use very general estimate figures, the woofer consumes 90% of the power the amp puts out, and the tweeter 10%. So, by bi-amping, you relieve the amp driving the woofer of only 10% of its load. Like I said, it's just not worth it. Get a better, extarnal amp, or in your case, get better speakers. Fisher just isn't worth the trouble.


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#3
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6/13/09 at 2:02pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

My understanding of the difference between full range and bi amp comes from my experience with EAW KF300s that I use at work which are able to switch from full range passive to bi amp, and was under the impression that the difference was essentially the ability to process the signal better and then send the separate signals out to two external amps thus giving better signal processing, rather than sending a single signal out and letting the passive crossover do all the processing. Then again none of my experience with audio has been in a home setting, so am I mistaken?

If in a home theater setting the advantages to bi amping are really so small do you think i would be better off purchasing the 507 and investing the saved $100 or so in a different set of fronts? Do you have any other suggestions that may make for a better combination? At the moment I have about $600 to spend, and the receiver and an external amp where my planned last purchases.
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#4
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6/14/09 at 2:33am
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

John, That is a completely different form a bi-amping. With home gear, the speaker still uses its internal crossover when bi-amping. I would still probably go ahead and get the 607 for its ability to use HD audio by way of hdmi and various other features. Besides, $100 isn't going to be enough to do much about your fronts.


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#5
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6/14/09 at 12:45pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Did not notice that the 507 wasn't able to receive HD audio via HDMI, close call on that. Thank you for all the help, will get the 607, and just keep saving for a little while for some better fronts.
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#6
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6/14/09 at 2:35pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Quote:
Did not notice that the 507 wasn't able to receive HD audio via HDMI, close call on that

Eh? 507 absolutely handles HD audio via HDMI. It's the 506 from last year that doesn't.

The main difference between these (607/507) is the 7.2 vs. the 5.1, also you can use the extra channels as zone 2 instead of the rear channels. If you want to get it on that basis, that's fine, but don't rule out 507 based on HD audio which it can handle.
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#7
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6/15/09 at 8:29pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Ok, thats what I thought as the 607 is version 1.3a and 507 is 1.3. The only difference is in CEC commands, right? In terms of differences in features I couldn't find anything other than Dolby PLIIz, On Screen Remote Programming, OSD output, and of course 7.2 output. None of which are major selling points for me.

Also it wouldn't hurt me too much to drop down in terms of output per channel from 90watts to 80 right? For the current living situation I'm unable to push my system too much anyways.
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#8
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6/16/09 at 6:32am
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrberns
Ok, thats what I thought as the 607 is version 1.3a and 507 is 1.3. The only difference is in CEC commands, right? In terms of differences in features I couldn't find anything other than Dolby PLIIz, On Screen Remote Programming, OSD output, and of course 7.2 output. None of which are major selling points for me.

Just so you understand, 1.3 vs 1.3a is not the issue here. The issue is whether the AVR will decode the newer HD audio or just play the PCM passed to it. The older 506 did not decode, therefor you needed a player that did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrberns
Also it wouldn't hurt me too much to drop down in terms of output per channel from 90watts to 80 right? For the current living situation I'm unable to push my system too much anyways.

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#9
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6/16/09 at 9:53am
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow
Just so you understand, 1.3 vs 1.3a is not the issue here. The issue is whether the AVR will decode the newer HD audio or just play the PCM passed to it. The older 506 did not decode, therefor you needed a player that did.

To be more precise, the issue is which of the following 3 categories an AVR falls into:
1. doesn't handle any audio over HDMI at all. AKA "pass-through", in this case you need separate optical/coax connection and get at most DD/DTS. To get the TrueHD etc. it would need multi-ch analog in, but that requires more expensive BD player with multi-ch analog out, and in any case to me it is silly to buy a new receiver with HDMI that is crippled and can't do the audio.
2. accepts multi-channel LPCM, DD, DTS over HDMI, but doesn't decode the newer DD+/TrueHD/DTS-HD. In this case to get the newer codecs the player has to be able to decode the newer tracks, not just "bitstream" them, ala the PS3.
3. accepts all the new codecs. Then you either decode in the player or bitstream.

For low-end Onkyo receivers of the past 2 years, the breakdown is:
category 1: 506/307.
category 2: 576
category 3: 606+/507+
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#10
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6/16/09 at 4:29pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Sorry for my mistake on the 507. I don't keep all that up to date on the details and wasn't aware the 50x level receiver had full hdmi audio capabilities now.


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#11
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6/16/09 at 5:00pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrberns
Sorry this is actually a modified repost from "Members Theaters and HT Projects" I realized it would actually be better suited here.
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#12
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6/16/09 at 9:08pm
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Re: Onkyo 607 Bi-Amp Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
In future, please ask a moderator to move the existing thread. Thanks!
As a forum moderator myself, I deeply apologize.

As for everyone else's advice thank you very much. I am going to go with the 507 as it fits my my specific needs well enough for the moment as well as satisfying a couple nonspecific ones. As a lowly 24 year old AV tech I need to try and be prudent in my purchases, and I feel more comfortable with the low price of the 507 at the moment as I will likely upgrade a great deal if and when I am able to start piecing together a nicer system. Also I hate say it but I am much more of a videot and my audiophile tendencies tend to stop at silently screaming at clients that don't know how to speak into a microphone at work.

Thanks again very much for all the help, and I hope to stay on here and learn more and help a bit as well in the future.
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